Derracuda's Project Alpine 4kq *Comatose*

JShadzi · Post by **JShadzi** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:27 pm

scottmandu wrote:The 4K control arms are designed to bend (instead of your car) in the event your wheel rolls over something it isn't supposed to.

I had a buddy who totalled his car shortly after he seam welded his control arms on his coupe GT, he hit a curb while sliding on ice sideways at about 15 mph and the strengthened control arm was pushed up against the rear of the subframe which seperated the two pieces of spot welded steel that made up the frame of his car. The local VW dealer had a rash of quantums which experienced the same thing around that time and the way the control arm was designed to bent and contort was amazing. Of course one wheel and control arm later and those quantums were back on the road.

Yup, BTDT many times, they pretzel nicely when you hit something 8)

mhb_1323 · Post by **mhb_1323** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:19 pm

I dont know what welding an A-arm on a 4kq will do exactly as far as making it brittle or something, but i was showing my bro how to cut cookies with my 4kq (hes got an 88 RX-7, no limited slip) and i gave a curb a high five, it was probably only 5-8 mph, and i also have 225/60's on my ronals, so those probably took the brunt of it. but i wouldn't want to do it any faster. At least our A-amrs are not like subaru's, they almost snap on speed-bumps. I did my first couple of welding jobs on my exhaust, not bad for your third time.

JShadzi · Post by **JShadzi** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:23 pm

mhb_1323 wrote:I dont know what welding an A-arm on a 4kq will do exactly as far as making it brittle or something, but i was showing my bro how to cut cookies with my 4kq (hes got an 88 RX-7, no limited slip) and i gave a curb a high five, it was probably only 5-8 mph, and i also have 225/60's on my ronals, so those probably took the brunt of it. but i wouldn't want to do it any faster. At least our A-amrs are not like subaru's, they almost snap on speed-bumps. I did my first couple of welding jobs on my exhaust, not bad for your third time.

Never seen a stock steel a-arm fail under normal or even track use, I'm sure seam welding them stiffens them up, but never seen a failure unless something nasty was done.

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:18 am

scottmandu wrote:The 4K control arms are designed to bend (instead of your car) in the event your wheel rolls over something it isn't supposed to.

I had a buddy who totalled his car shortly after he seam welded his control arms on his coupe GT, he hit a curb while sliding on ice sideways at about 15 mph and the strengthened control arm was pushed up against the rear of the subframe which seperated the two pieces of spot welded steel that made up the frame of his car. The local VW dealer had a rash of quantums which experienced the same thing around that time and the way the control arm was designed to bent and contort was amazing. Of course one wheel and control arm later and those quantums were back on the road.

well, this doesn't make sense. you're basically saying that the later cast arms which are significantly stronger than the stamped arms will cause the same issue in hitting a curb. i've managed to not hit any curbs yet so i'll take my chances and hopefully enjoy a tighter suspension and potentially longer lasting control arms. it only took about 15 minutes to do em, so no loss by any means. :-)

Wizard-of-OD · Post by **Wizard-of-OD** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:33 am

does it vibrate to hell and back?

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:05 am

dunno yet, still waiting for a couple pieces to get it back on the road before the track session this coming weekend *siezure*

scottmandu · Post by **scottmandu** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:22 am

I don't have a cast arm to stare at but I'd be willing to bet that there are failure points cast into it.

The stamped steel control arms are stout enough to withstand daily driving and even auto crossing, the only time I've seen or hear of them failing are when there is a collision or in rally racing.

When Audi went to the cast arms they were probably thinking more about cost of the component rather than the strength of the arm. Items can be cast a lot less expensively than fabricated. I'd be willing to bet that the relative strength of both types of arms are the same.

Don't the cast arms and associated suspension bits offer more camber, which is the big reason why people use the later suspension stuff?

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:30 am

the new arms with the right ball joints will give more caster, but it will move the wheel forward too far in my wheel well to work properly, so i'm stuck with the stock stuff. i'd read a while back from some people that the stamped ones cracked so i figured i'd do em' up while i had them out 8)

Corey · Post by **Corey** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:16 pm

There is a train of thought over here that by swapping to the later forged arms (as fitted to the RR 20v urq) greatly improves the handling and turn in. Driven a few 20v's and never felt them to be better than a 20v but we shall see.

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:48 pm

so today i started off by waxing my car a bit. it's been a while since i've done it and it shows. it's hard to see in the pic, but the left side is really quite a bit darker

then i got on with building a new battery tray. all i had before was one of those crappy plastic battery boxes and the battery sorta slid around a bit. i still need to make the holding down portion and mount it up tomorrow, but then i'll be ready to go

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:18 pm

today i finished up the battery tray, it turned out pretty sweet!

i also painted up the grille and rings. it was about time, plastic dressing just wasn't lasting anymore...

Audilard · Post by **Audilard** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:23 pm

Nice job on the battery box. Looks good!

dets · Post by **dets** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:44 pm

yea, 2nd the battery box. looks secure

JShadzi · Post by **JShadzi** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:50 pm

Nice battery tray champ! :-)

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:51 pm

that was the idear

there's three bolts holding the bracket to the frame and the inside fender support so it won't wobble. i built it so i wounldn't have to do it ever again! HA

Toxcheap · Post by **Toxcheap** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:17 pm

Nice looking good!

zepmoreau · Post by **zepmoreau** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:27 pm

I like it man ..... good show ol chap!!

WAUG0806 · Post by **WAUG0806** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:29 am

Nice work Derek... I think that battery tray will survive the apocolypse!

Love to see a wide shot of the front with everything blacked out...

and that V8 swap we keep hearing about!

WOMBAT · Post by **WOMBAT** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:40 am

more wrinkle paint!!!

loooks toight like a toigah!!

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:45 am

i'll get some front pics here soon

and the v8 swap is in the works. it's being put off for a couple of reasons...track event, ECU swap to Ib for the future owner of the engine, and it's hard to let go of a running car

Lt. Sarge · Post by **Lt. Sarge** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:53 am

Both pieces look awesome Derek, I'm really diggin the glossy black on the rings. Looks sweet!

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:50 pm

hey yous guys with small chassis cars, change to delrin control arm bushings if you want instant steering

this thing rocks now. i got my second set of delrins for the rear installed last night and went for a run this morning...WHOOOOOOO. there's this construction zone on the way to where i had to go, and the've got about a half mile of cones on either side

they happen to be spaced just right to weave in and out. it was comfortably easy at 40mph, but i noticed the truck coming up behind me so i stepped it up a bit and when i got a chance to look down i was doing just over 50mph...dang, i need a slalom of my own

WAUG0806 · Post by **WAUG0806** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:10 pm

:woowoo:

I bet Mr. Law would be very interested in you and your cars enhanced "accident avoidance" abilities.

Highway cones are tempting, but I'm too old to explain things like that to the officers any more! :bump:

PS - I read in AutoWeek that the new S8/Lambo V-10 is just a hair under 27" long x 28" high... 450 HP 368 '#tq have not seen one on eBay yet, though!

Think a lambo cam cover would bolt onto a 7A head??

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:13 pm

oh, just to note, the road between the cones was clear, they had like a half mile of cones on either side of the work they were doing in an intersection. i wasn't weaving dangerously

derracuda · Post by **derracuda** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:08 pm

annnd to finish off this weeks upgrades.......*drum roll* the piece de' resistance! RECAROS from a jetta Gli

about one of the most comfortable seats i've EVER sat in, hugs me toight, supports my back properly, and only comes in the wrong color :( sokay though, i may have them recovered....haven't decided 100% yet.