The Project Pad

having come across this before, the issue isn't necessarily the o-ring to o-ring dimension but the offset to the 'shoulder' on the injector that catches the cup in the manifold. A quick fix is to throw a correctly sized washer behind the o-ring which catches on the shoulder of the aluminum hat and prevents the assembly from sliding too far down into the injector cup. a longer fix is to adjust the mounts to make the rail sit lower. the optimum solution is a better designed injector hat.

what Marc said...

I searched the QW chronicles and there's even been talk about not even needing clips if the hat is properly designed...

Compared


Back in June 2009
http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/threads/612.phtml

Yeah, the clips are not necessary when the injector height is correct, it has nowhere to move. Those clips aren't holding 85+ psi of fuel pressure anyways.

OK, we're almost at the bottom of this now. What Marc said is absolutely correct. The o-ring dimensions are actually correct, its the shoulder on the hats (or lack of) which is causing this problem. The solution to that is in a new hat design which has already been finished and sent to make chips. Give it two-ish weeks and I'll have new hats for you guys.

I've informed the three of you who've bought these of this issue. I just don't want anyone having a mishap because of this, so sit tight and you'll have some new hats ASAP and for free of course.

This guy ^

dramarider to the rescue

Dramaridder, in the truest sense

I always try to make every experience as dramatic as possible.

I need my car so I had to do something about it today...











In the meantime double ORing & ZipTies




Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Nice ghetto-fab interim solution there! Do they have much latteral movement?

I absolutely love the ingenuity, looks like they are spaced perfectly.

themagellan wrote:Dirty update papi

In the mean time "While you are dailying" the shadytree answer would be to use some zipties or lobster rubber bands to apply a bit more downward pressure. It's hoodrat, but yeah... always here to give you bad workable ideas

I think i'm going to keep any future advice to my self hahaha

I wish it was anywhere near that easy for me to pull injectors.

For me it goes: Pull intercooler-TB connectors, DV and IAT sensor mid pipe, remove throttle body, finagle fuel rail off, curse as both mount nuts fall into impossible places, pull injectors, do whatever, installation is reverse of removal with significantly more cursing to get nuts behind the rail to catch.

Looks like some chunks of nylon bushing could be another fix.

Mcstiff wrote:Looks like some chunks of nylon bushing could be another fix.

Yep. Anything to keep enough pressure on the orings against the seat in the rail cup to keep them from pushing downward from fuel pressure. With that, the zipties would likely be unnecessary.

UrSobsessed wrote:Nice ghetto-fab interim solution there! Do they have much latteral movement?

Yes there is, but it's now minimal in comparison

themagellan wrote:I absolutely love the ingenuity, looks like they are spaced perfectly.

I think i'm going to keep any future advice to my self hahaha

It still takes time and effort to make ghetto look good... & future advice can still be sent privately

vt10vt wrote:I wish it was anywhere near that easy for me to pull injectors.

For me it goes: Pull intercooler-TB connectors, DV and IAT sensor mid pipe, remove throttle body, finagle fuel rail off, curse as both mount nuts fall into impossible places, pull injectors, do whatever, installation is reverse of removal with significantly more cursing to get nuts behind the rail to catch.

[b]Solution: Go 20vt
.

UrSobsessed wrote:

Mcstiff wrote:Looks like some chunks of nylon bushing could be another fix.

Yep. Anything to keep enough pressure on the orings against the seat in the rail cup to keep them from pushing downward from fuel pressure. With that, the zipties would likely be unnecessary.

In this case, with these current hats, the zipties are still needed. What I observed as I was stranded yet again yesterday before my ziptie solution was the following:

1) Once fuel pressure is built the injectors ARE pushed down into the IM Injector Cup per Marc

Marc wrote:having come across this before, the issue isn't necessarily the o-ring to o-ring dimension but the offset to the 'shoulder' on the injector that catches the cup in the manifold. A quick fix is to throw a correctly sized washer behind the o-ring which catches on the shoulder of the aluminum hat and prevents the assembly from sliding too far down into the injector cup.

2) The rail cups look to be designed as a cone with the circumference getting smaller as you go up into the cup
3) As the Injector slides down, less pressure is placed on the seal making them weep at idle, ultimately pushing the seal back under accel/boost

EDIGREG wrote:Yeah, the clips are not necessary when the injector height is correct, it has nowhere to move. Those clips aren't holding 85+ psi of fuel pressure anyways.

4) I agree but the railclip on the DEKA's DO keep the injector from sliding down allowing the seal to do it's job of sealing (I swapped in my Dekas to test and they also leaked)

loxxrider wrote:its the shoulder on the hats (or lack of) which is causing this problem.

I don't think a broader shoulder with the current height that these hats have could 100% cure the issue, though it could definitely alleviate it to a degree. You'll still have an injector that slides down in to the IM cup leaving the upper O-Ring on the lower edge of the rail cup where the I feel there's less pressure hugging the O-ring. I've already concluded that these and the DEKA's are identical in height with the only difference being those rail clips. What I think would help would not only be a shoulder that extends all the way up to the O-Ring(like most injectors) but also raise where the O-Ring sits. Effectively making them a taller standing injector. I unfortunately couldn't find my stock sized injectors to confirm that they are longer whats used in the aftermarket, but these solutions would be what I believe would make these sit perfect on my OE rail. These 2 adjustments is what I believe Ed mentioned early on would fix both backing out of the rail while providing optimal path of spray...

EDIGREG wrote:Even if these are the same height as the Siemens 630, the issue is not evident on those injectors because they have a clip which prevents them from backing out of the fuel rail. (Even then, not ideal because that prevents the injector from being fully seated into the IM - potentially effecting the path of the spray)

Or of course someone could think of an early B-Day gift...

mushasho wrote:

vt10vt wrote:I wish it was anywhere near that easy for me to pull injectors.

For me it goes: Pull intercooler-TB connectors, DV and IAT sensor mid pipe, remove throttle body, finagle fuel rail off, curse as both mount nuts fall into impossible places, pull injectors, do whatever, installation is reverse of removal with significantly more cursing to get nuts behind the rail to catch.

Solution: Go 20vt
.

Someday... believe me I can't wait.

I may not have been super clear before... I think the hats are addressing the issues you are pointing out directly. Instead of the shallow groove where the o-ring currently sits, there will be a shoulder there... There will also be clip grooves added to the hats.

Again, I'm very sorry about this... rest assured the new hats will solve the problem

loxxrider wrote:I may not have been super clear before... I think the hats are addressing the issues you are pointing out directly. Instead of the shallow groove where the o-ring currently sits, there will be a shoulder there... There will also be clip grooves added to the hats.

Again, I'm very sorry about this... rest assured the new hats will solve the problem

This is Rubi on Crack



29921 double crack


The cover does nothing to prevent anything...

She looks good on crack

If only those camber plates in the member products section were available... I'd be inclined to revamp my whole setup with coilovers... She's in need, BAD...

You can do coils without the plates... When you go to swap them out you don't need to remove the struts either. I need to finish my new strut mount design too...

Yes, we need a good camber plate solution!

I've considered purchasing 2bennett's plates, and I know I'd regret it in the long run but the stock mounts are just super improper for coil-overs.

pilihp2 wrote:I've considered purchasing 2bennett's plates, and I know I'd regret it in the long run but the stock mounts are just super improper for coil-overs.

that's my feeling on that as well... but as long as it sits good in this section, perhaps it's a possibility...