Eric's '90 80QT: rustic bits

[Mcstiff]

If you get a chance can you tell me the OD of the 3b crank trigger pin? TIA.

[elaw]

You know there are two different 3B flywheels, one from 200 (016) and another from S2 (01A). The one from the S2 is dimensionally same as 7A flywheel, differences are the extra weight and pilot bearing . S2 3B has a needle bearing in the flywheel.

Ah! Well that would explain all the people on s2forum saying the 3B and 7A are the same!

Unfortunately mine is the 200 one.

[elaw]

If you get a chance can you tell me the OD of the 3b crank trigger pin? TIA.

Sure! I'll measure it when I get home from work and post back.

[elaw]

If you get a chance can you tell me the OD of the 3b crank trigger pin? TIA.

Looks like the diameter is exactly 4mm, and it protrudes from the back of the flywheel 11.6mm.

[elaw]

So today has been a good day!

Although it's been done for a couple of months, I haven't had a chance to test-fit my modded water manifold on the actual engine. Today that changed, and it fits wonderfully!

It looks like I could have angled the outlet upward a bit more and been fine, but in cases like this it's better to have too much clearance than too little! It also looks like a 3B manifold might have worked, which puzzles me. I bought a 3B manifold, set it next to an AAN intake on the table, and convinced myself it wouldn't work (the water outlet would not have any/enough clearance). So maybe what we have here is just a testament to my poor measuring skills. :tard:

Having pulled the intake manifold off too, I noticed something interesting. It's a little hard to see, but take a look at these intake valves that are all crudded up with deposits just like in the TV commercials:

Hey wait a minute... where are the deposits? :?

It's been quite a while since I've had an engine apart this far, and in the past I've seen some pretty yucky valves. But these seem pristine to me - I wonder if the PO had just done a valve job, or with better gas are most engines like this these days? I have absolutely no idea how many miles are on the motor - I forgot to ask when I bought it. Anyhow, I ain't complainin'!

[Mcstiff]

If you get a chance can you tell me the OD of the 3b crank trigger pin? TIA.

Looks like the diameter is exactly 4mm, and it protrudes from the back of the flywheel 11.6mm.

Sweet, thanks!

[elaw]

So here's today's interesting tidbit. I'm looking for a clutch disc to go with my 3B flywheel - the one I have is maybe 75% worn so why not replace it while I'm in there?

The simple answer to "why not" is the $400 it costs for a clutch kit, and most of the suppliers I normally use don't have just the disc. Yeah I know it's better to replace the whole thing but the PP is in great condition and I've already replaced the throwout bearing. In ETKA the disc is shown as NLA.

So tonight I get bored and Google "Audi 200 clutch disc" and guess what pops up but a dealer page! They show partnumber 035 141 033HX as being the right part. And when I go into ETKA and use the PAL function to check that number... guess what it fits, a 1991 200 quattro! WTF? I can get that disc for ~$225 including the core charge which isn't cheap but a lot better than 400 smackers.

Can anyone think of something I've got wrong or should that disc work on my car?

Here's the page if anyone's interested, it does mention the 3B engine: http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/produc ... 033HX.html

[mrmotorhead13]

GenuineAudiParts lists that disc for $204... with a $25 core charge. FYI

[elaw]

Hey thanks for the tip!

After a ton of investigating (I think I almost wore out Google ), I found that a Luk 02-021 kit will do the job, and if you order from the right place they're actually reasonably priced. In fact, Amazon of all places has it for $285. And I can probably recoup a little of that cost by selling the throwout and pilot bearings that come with the kit that I don't need.

I'd still love to know why ETKA says the disc for a 200 20V is NLA but when you look up the 035 141 033HX it says it fits a 200 20V??

[chris.miller]

Eric: I'm in a similar situation. 3b into an urq, usa 3b flywheel. Have a couple pressure plates that could work, clutch disks are somewhat worn. Have a brand new clutch kit I bought for the 7a flywheel (stock coupe q), but that's not useable with the 3b (pressure plate appears identical, the the clutch disk splines and center portion won't work).
I've seen a number of different part numbers that might work. Pressure plates confuse me; they all appear the same but every application has it's own part number.??? Anyone know the difference in them? I have two used 3b style and the new 7a style.
ebay has a SACHS KF772-01 kit for $385 but like you I really only need the friction disk. Let me know what you go with. CHris

[elaw]

Yeah, there's a whole thread here about the differences (or lack thereof) between 7A and 3B pressure plates. There doesn't seem to be an obvious conclusion on whether they're equivalent or not. In terms of dimensions they definitely are. But visually there are small differences between them, and I think the one potential biggie that nobody's set up to measure is clamping force. There are also manufacturer differences - the Sachs ones look very different from the Luk ones. I've got one Sachs and two Luk here, and there are very subtle differences between the Luk ones too (one of my Luks is 7A, the other is 3B).

I think I'm probably going to go with the complete Luk kit I mentioned in my post above. Even though the pressure plates I have are in good shape, for $35 above the price of just the disc it seems crazy not to get a new one.

[elaw]

So here's an interesting trivia question... perhaps someone out there knows the answer?

I'm thinking about how I want to route the wiring between battery (which will be living in the trunk) and starter on this car.

On the Audis that have the battery in the rear and the jumper-cable post under the hood, does the wiring go battery --> post --> starter, or battery --> starter --> post?

Or in other words, does the positive battery cable go directly to the starter, or to the jumper post and *then* to the starter?

[Mcstiff]

I'm jumping mine via a circuit breaker.

[mrmotorhead13]

So here's an interesting trivia question... perhaps someone out there knows the answer?

I'm thinking about how I want to route the wiring between battery (which will be living in the trunk) and starter on this car.

On the Audis that have the battery in the rear and the jumper-cable post under the hood, does the wiring go battery --> post --> starter, or battery --> starter --> post?

Or in other words, does the positive battery cable go directly to the starter, or to the jumper post and *then* to the starter?

I'd be inclined to go battery-->starter-->post just to put one less possible source of resistance between the battery and the starter. Either should work equally well in a perfect world...

[elaw]

Yeah, that's how I had the 4KQ laid out. But going battery -> starter -> post means I have 3 large wires going to the starter (battery, alternator, and post which also feeds the car's electrical system) whereas if I go battery -> post -> starter there are only two. That wouldn't be such a big deal except I'd like to route all the wires back along the tranny rather than having some go toward the front like on the 4K. And the space going to the rear is pretty limited because the exhaust is right there.

[elaw]

Well continuing the recent trend of teeny steps... today we have the super-duper wucka-wucka adaptomatic shift box!

Behold:

What you're looking at is blatantly ripped off from Bernie/Bill's 80 shifter setup from a couple of pages back in this thread. It's a B5 A4 shifter box which will bolt directly into existing holes in the 80Q's tunnel. The sheetmetal bit in the middle is the remains of the base of a 4KQ shifter (I'm waiting on new plastic parts to reassemble the rest of it). Homemade aluminum brackets attach said base to rails that came with the box. They're a bit hard to see, but there are 4 setscrews that allow that part to be shifted forward and back a little for adjustment, then locked in place.

The front of the box originally had a very large 2-part rubber boot to accommodate the A4 shifter. What I did was take a cast aluminum electronic project box, cut it diagonally, and attach it with a couple of aluminum angle brackets and pop rivets to the box. It was liberally gobbed up with RTV to seal it. Then I cut a hole in it to fit the boot from the 4KQ shifter. The angle is slightly off, but I think it'll work. Okay, I *hope* it'll work! 8)

[chris.miller]

Yeah, that's how I had the 4KQ laid out. But going battery -> starter -> post means I have 3 large wires going to the starter (battery, alternator, and post which also feeds the car's electrical system) whereas if I go battery -> post -> starter there are only two. That wouldn't be such a big deal except I'd like to route all the wires back along the tranny rather than having some go toward the front like on the 4K. And the space going to the rear is pretty limited because the exhaust is right there.

Why install it underhood at all? Find a nice spot in the trunk for the jump start post and install a ground stud near it. The later cars ('91 200q on) didn't splice the wire to the fuse box off the main battery wire to the starter, but ran separate feeds to the fuse box from the battery. On the urq, I reused the 200q20v battery positive feed to replace the splice in the urq wiring.

[elaw]

Well, the jumper post's value to me is not so much as a jumper post but as a tie point to connect the rest of the car's wiring. The cable from the fusebox that originally went to the battery would connect there, as well as the Megasquirt. Posts in the trunk I wouldn't really need as the battery will be right there.

Actually it's kind of funny... as the car is usually parked head-in, having the battery (or jumper cable connections) in the trunk is actually more convenient than having them under the hood!

[elaw]

So Santa Claus showed up just now! He was disguised as a UPS driver to hide his identity but I know the truth.

Exhibit 1, H&R springs:

Huge thanks go to my wife, who doesn't understand why anyone would want a bunch of coiled-up bits of metal as a birthday gift, but got them for me anyway. :-) :-) :-)
I do find it quite amusing that it says "100% made in Germany" on the outside of the box, but inside the box there's a little American flag sticker.

And... exhibit 2, a brandy-new clutch:

I know this is going to sound silly but I've never actually owned a brand-new clutch! I've never bought a new car, and when I've done clutches in my car I've always just replaced the disc. Not this time! :-)

[elaw]

Houston, we have a shifter!

I have no idea why Houston would care whether I have a shifter, but I just felt the urge to say that.

With many thanks to Bernie + Bill for their idea, I present the 4000 quattro shifter adapted to fit in an 80 quattro:


Unfortunately it's not connected to the transmission yet, because the transmission is in the garage and the linkage won't reach. But it's in place, fits well, and I think it's gonna work. The linkage rod just hits the front aluminum mounting bar when the lever is pulled way back, but I don't think it'll go that far back in normal operation. If it turns out it does, I can grind a little off that bar, it's got plenty of meat on it and the area of conflict is small.

Oh and that's one of Joe Marconi's spiffy refinished knobs on top... it adds a nice touch IMHO.

[mrmotorhead13]

Houston, we have a shifter!

I have no idea why Houston would care whether I have a shifter, but I just felt the urge to say that.

With many thanks to Bernie + Bill for their idea, I present the 4000 quattro shifter adapted to fit in an 80 quattro:

Unfortunately it's not connected to the transmission yet, because the transmission is in the garage and the linkage won't reach. But it's in place, fits well, and I think it's gonna work. The linkage rod just hits the front aluminum mounting bar when the lever is pulled way back, but I don't think it'll go that far back in normal operation. If it turns out it does, I can grind a little off that bar, it's got plenty of meat on it and the area of conflict is small.

Oh and that's one of Joe Marconi's spiffy refinished knobs on top... it adds a nice touch IMHO.

I can't take any credit for Bernie's shifter but thanks (he had that part done before I started helping with the build). As far as the lever hitting the bar when it's moved back, another solution would be to make the throw a little shorter (which IMO they need).

[elaw]

Well I may have done that already!

I've got a few different ones of the arm with the ball on it that attaches to the selector shaft coming out of the transmission. Although ETKA claims they're all the same partnumber, one is a bit shorter than the others. I'm going to use that one, which should result in shorter shifter throws.

[elaw]

So here's today's dumb question: F & R upper spring perches... which are which?


The car originally came with coilover suspension which I'm converting back to stock. Well not *quite* stock, I'm using CQ parts and the H&R springs I mentioned above. The upper spring perches are clearly two different types. One seems taller and is made of a single piece of sheet metal (front in the photo above), the other is a little shorter and is made of two pieces of sheet metal (the rear ones in the photo). Does anyone out there know which is which?

Also if anyone has a set they're interested in selling cheap that doesn't look like it was pulled from the wreckage of the Titanic, I might be interested in buying! :-) But ya gotta let me know quick, because I might start cleaning these up as soon as tomorrow.

[ur20v]

I have some B3 CQ (and B4) front strut housings for sale cheap they have the perches and they look brand new compared to that stuff

[yodasfro]

Rears are on the top, fronts are on the bottom in the pic.