Hanks URQ 2.6L Autopsy

[speeding-g60]

what kind of flow are you searching for?

[Hank]

About 850whp so about 85lbs/min plus or minus

[speeding-g60]

i just got my new snail today... S400SX 67mm FMW billet. has the same comp wheel as the EFR 9180 but has an 83mm instead of an 80mm turbine. 94lb/min....

cant wait to try it out.

[Hank]

That turbo shows a lot of promise based off the various forums. There are a couple of mid 900whp cars trapping 160 on that guy. I wish the efr would release already..... I am so rang curious

[loxxrider]

Hank, Borg told me first quarter 2012 for the EFRs at PRI. 95 lb/min for the 67mm is pretty decent especially considering the 67/91 comp wheel specs.

Also, maybe look into the 64 that Precision is coming out with. It outflows their 67 by a wide margin apparently. I was told 980whp on it so far... and that rotating assembly is insanely light. I was impressed with what they had to offer, but also heard that they are experiencing extremely high failure rates on the journal bearing turbos. The ball bearing turbos aren't experiencing the same issues and are fully rebuildable on the bench because they are component balanced.

[Mushasho!]

I was impressed with what they had to offer, but also heard that they are experiencing extremely high failure rates on the journal bearing turbos.

Is this the failure you're referring too?

http://turbodirect.co.za/site/index.php ... &Itemid=21

Sent from TapTalk on Android, of course...

[loxxrider]

That is not what I was referring to. The failures I heard of were related to center sections, turbine wheels, etc.

That being said, I would take that review with a grain of salt as well as anything that has come from Precision's "mouth". Some of the stuff in that review is outdated (the turbine wheel design for example) and some of it is clearly biased. However, some of what Precision markets is misleading and it is obvious that they have issues to work out. I would personally test my luck with a 64 if I were so inclined... they are really pushing some nice products that do perform well, but whether there is really any good, real engineering going on is questionable. I think they have some smart people working there, but the resources might not be there yet?

[Mushasho!]

The source that sent it to me also wrote this disclaimer along with it:
"When reading it, you have to keep in mind that the company that did the tear down is a Garrett vendor. Just like how they say that Steel bearings are better to use than Ceramic.... if that were true, why would Pratt and Whitney use them in their Turbine Jet Engines? Lol!"

[Sciroccohp]

I tried to read the whole thread for the answer but did not find it. Are you still using the aluminum exhaust? I was thinking of doing it on my race car since I have gained 20 lbs I need to take that out of the car ;-) Also did you ever find a driveshaft solution or are you still just using the spacers?

[Hank]

I am actually on a stainless exhaust at the moment, but plan on making a revision to the aluminum exhaust and putting one back in. The weak spot in my design was the v-band clamps and crappy driveways in utah. I replaced the center section 3 times because of clearance issues. One rub and the exhaust looks like a pancake. For a race car, it would be a no brainer, especially NA. The aluminum does anneal quite a bit and that is why my v-band clamps failed. My next design will have a 3" aluminum clamp, but the ID will be big enough to allow for a 3" stainless section to fit inside of it so the aluminum does not collapse when tightened. My next revision will be a 3.5" downpipe that splits into two 2.5" aluminum midsections. One will go over the axle and the other will dump out the side/bottom via a valve.

Driveshaft or half shaft? I have had great results with cutting shafts and welding them(a bit more complicated then that, but that is the idea) I get 5ktq units that are longer than needed and take out the appropriate length to get beefy axles with the older style cv. I believe the older CVs with a nut are stronger than the newer style with the bolt. I want to go 2 piece soon, but need to find a way to keep the older outer CVs so I can retain the early axles.

HTH

[Sciroccohp]

cool, so the trick will be getting aluminum with a slightly larger ID then my current headers and clamping with a normal clamp? since I just exit in front of the rear tire I would only need one bend in it and a down turn for noise.
I was talking about half shafts. I am going to try the B3 shafts and hope the ABZ doesn't kill them too fast but I am not very nice to my cars.

[Wizard-of-OD]

That being said, I would take that review with a grain of salt as well as anything that has come from Precision's "mouth".

Correct.
Cant disclose the rest of this email but most of the "EFR" failure reviews are complete bogus.
Direct from lead engineer for the EFR line up about a "precision dealer"

"Subject: RE: EFR Turbos
Is this "Precision dealer" also a BorgWarner dealer? haha"

In short these are good turbos and the results so far are amazing. We got a built 1.8T 20V making 328whp @ 15psi on a 6758 (turbo rated for 400chp...)
I am sure playing around with the Maestro settings will yield more power but I do not have time to do that with the holidays coming up. In short these turbos are the future. Rumor has it though that a popular wastegate and blow off valve company is getting into there own line of turbochargers.

next summer is going to be very interesting in the forced induction world.

[loxxrider]

ah I KNEW IT! I was close to asking that BOV and wastegate company when they were going to start making their own turbos while I was at PRI. If they do, I hope they are nothing less than the best products we can buy just like their wastegates and blow off valves are in my opinion.

Anyway, I do hope that Borg gets the EFR's back on track. They do have good potential, but probably have some room for improvement in the coming years.

Hank, call me!

[Lord_Verminaard]

Gee whiz, I wonder who that wastegate and bov company would be.....

Brendan

[Hank]

I am doing an sae paper on the ti-gamma wheel compared to the inconel garret wheel in my spare time for fun, but the rotational inertia of the wheels is surprisingly close when you consider a double blade thickness, a full-back design to the exducer and 7% bigger wheels to compensate for the thickness( and to get better ratios turbine to compressor). This supports the data out there for nearly the same spool and power for hta wheels to efr equivalents.

[loxxrider]

Yep, there is always a tradeoff. Typically the lighter metal will result in a weaker part which means you have to sacrifice in the area of blade thickness (need to make it thicker). This sacrifice results in a sacrifice in aero qualities, which results in a bigger wheel to get the same flow. This finally results in a rotating assembly that is close to what you started with. Noone has any hard results or data yet (at least in the public), but you can at least see the theoretical, potential problem.

[scottmandu]

Also Scott, with the torsen front and torsen center, should I be nervous about the extra heat that it will create? Perhaps I should look into cooling the trans..

Anybody think a triple torsen drivertrain is a bad idea?

It's no secret why all the high horsepower cars have a 4 liter trans sump and pump to push oil through an external cooler.

[PRA4WX]

Anybody think a triple torsen drivertrain is a bad idea?

Not any worse than three open diffs, i doubt much better though really....and i also have this suspicion about torsens and broken drivetrain parts in hotrods like yours....

[my2000apb]

spill the suspicion

[Mcstiff]

I'm guessing it is that shifting torque around creates load spikes and breaks things.

[PRA4WX]

I'm guessing it is that shifting torque around creates load spikes and breaks things.

i think that's it. I've noticed load up while driving/autoXing torsen cars. Torsens are torque multipliers so stacking the load to tractive axle COULD cause load spikes. Now, admittedly they only multiply available torque so in the case of a wheel slipping there is less total torque available in the system for the torsen to bias, but it biases it and one side of the torsen sees much higher loading than the other side. Higher loading combined with imbalanced loading i imagine does it.

Eh, but what do i know. All i know is i want three wavetracs! 8)

[WAUG0806]

I have to wonder what type of diffs the factory Trans-Am & IMSA pavement pounders of yore used. They seemed to work well and finish races.

[Hank]

SO I scored these from Dave on a trade, and I am trying to decide if I like them. The plus is that they are 18x8.5 which lets me run free take offs from the cup cars out at miller, they weight a respectable 18.5lbs and expose the massive brakes in front... but I am not really sold on 18s on the urq, nor the silver finish. What does the gallery think?

[HeartlessNomad12]

big and naked, i have 17's on my 90 and with the square shapes i think i need to go down to 16's, but hte 8.5 width is nice to have, have any full car shots with them on??

[OOOOGT]

I like it. I wish the RC's I have for my 5 lug swap were 18 instead of 17, mainly due to the wider width of the 18's. The 17's are only 7.5 wide.