Loxxrider's 200 20v Revver: See you on "The Project Pad"

[loxxrider]

Yes destroke for sure, but the idea is to destroke a tall-deck down to 2.3l. lol don't worry, no 2wd haha.

Chris, the IC in it is the most efficient design I could find that will fit behind a 200 bumper. The rad doesn't present a problem for the ic. However, I could fit a second IC where the radiator is if I went the Norwegian route lol. I intend to retain at least a partially functional trunk however. I'm not turning this into a race car, that would be a waste of money. I'll save that duty for something more capable like a Lotus or Porsche I think. The intention is just badass quattro monster for the street with the ability to take it to the track if I really wanted to, for the hell of it. I think the current IC should be fine though. I'll try it for now, and if it presents a problem, then I'll try some things like spraying it with nitrous, water, or meth, or last resort would be a big AWIC with heat exchanger.

[chaloux]

oooooooh fun

That's the thing... fine line between fine on the street and not fine on the street. Where is the cutoff and what does it include? It's one thing I can say about dad's car that still impresses me - how normal it feels (felt) until you start flying into space.

When a car becomes "brutal," even in a good way, I think it's lost something that was there before. And this may not be a bad thing! It just becomes a much different machine.

waxwane

[ChrisAudi80]

meth AND a big AWIC with heat exchanger.

:dur: :heart:

Yeah, I am stoked on AWIC.

[loxxrider]

oooooooh fun

That's the thing... fine line between fine on the street and not fine on the street. Where is the cutoff and what does it include? It's one thing I can say about dad's car that still impresses me - how normal it feels (felt) until you start flying into space.

When a car becomes "brutal," even in a good way, I think it's lost something that was there before. And this may not be a bad thing! It just becomes a much different machine.

waxwane

For me, that line has nothing to do with power delivery. I fully intend for this to be a slug until 3500 or so (it makes OK power there from my experience so far) and then have a seriously awesome powerband from about 5k to 10.5 or 11k. That isn't a bad range of RPMs to have power What I really mean by, "I don't want to make this a race car" is that I just want it to be livable as a street car. I want it to still embody the spirit of a T44. You can't have a rocket couch if it isn't still comfy! For example, I'd be all for a full cage, but ONLY if it could be integrated well enough that you don't really notice it. A wild clutch is fine with me... makes me feel like I'm driving a badass car lol. Again, this isn't intended to be a daily. Usable trunk is relatively important as is a usable back seat. No fixed-back seats, the suspension has to be easy to live with (just like it is now), etc. I think the car is just fine the way it is minus 400 or 500 whp more than it is making now. You get the idea I think?

I did get to daydreaming today though. It would be cool to go to CCW and have them build a set of wheels right on the car. Not sure how they would look, but for sure it would be the easiest way to have the perfect widths and offsets to get the most grip and best fitment possible on the car. They are only a few hours from my home, so it is something I'd definitely consider.

[chaloux]

I agree, I was commenting mostly about chassis after having driven a few fast, but I would say brutal cars. Fun and annoying are pretty close sometimes. Power and power delivery don't concernr me so much unless a big 4" straight exhaust makes talking impossible.

But hey different cars for different purposes and different people! I want a ride when its done.

[loxxrider]

Hopefully everyone will get a ride

Yep, I like the exhaust the way it is now. I think it is perfect except for long trips where it gets droney. There will definitely have to be 4" cut out somewhere, but I want to be able to close it up and make it quiet too. I'm sure that can be achieved!

[mr_aj_johnson]

Put some real thought into the cage. Build it to a racing spec that you will actually be able to compete in, otherwise it's just something to bounce your head off. I cannot wait to hear this motor!

[loxxrider]

Yes, if it were to get one, I would absolutely make sure it was appropriately built for street use too.

[1badquattro]

I think it will be a bad ass build.

[WOMBAT]

How do you have your launch control hooked up? Vacuum switch on the clutch pedal doesn't ground out :(

[da_trem]

Maybe this?..thats the way i intend to do it.

http://www.efiexpress.com/catalog/artic ... 8f91a2e29b

[loxxrider]

You can do it via the vac switch using a relay! I had it that way for a while. The problem is that it is actually better in my opinion to have it on the ebrake. The reason being that you need to load up the trans when you launch to avoid a shock load on everything, and riding the clutch for a second against the e-brake is the best way to do that. Also, having it on the clutch makes it impossible to release it when you want to. Now one thing you should have on the clutch switch is WOT shift. That is fun to try and master.

[WOMBAT]

Ah good input, thanks!

[my2000apb]

Also, having it on the clutch makes it impossible to release it when you want to. Now one thing you should have on the clutch switch is WOT shift. That is fun to try and master.

can you explain that further?

[EDIGREG]

Ok Chris - it's September................................

[loxxrider]

Ed, I'll be back in the states in less than two weeks! Then the car will be getting shipped up to Marc's.

Tim, the whole problem with the clutch switch is that it isn't really adjustable (the stock one isn't that I know of anyway) so your lc might turn off mid-launch when really maybe you'd rather it stay there until you are out of the hole a bit more... or it might turn on again accidentally later down the track when you are trying to anticipate another shift. This happened to me too much :/

[my2000apb]

ok i was referring to and going to run a hydraulic brake light switch, inline between the master and slave

youre runnign off the oem clutch switch? which would seem to work just like the oem brake light switch, that palstic screw in black and white thing?

[chaloux]

Ok Chris - it's September................................

lol. Back already eh!

[busmn280]

Hi Chris,

I am going to be living my type 44 dream project vicariously through your project thread! I'm really curious how streetable this car will be when you're done. It's not hard to cross the line from street car to race car when you're talking about the kind of mods you are planning. Nevertheless, I will be keeping an eye on your progress as will many others! You go Chris!

[loxxrider]

Thanks for the kind words. I don't think there will be much of a problem honestly. Current EFI tech has really made things better lately. You really don't have to compromise that much anymore if you know what you are doing! The ride will remain as is which is just fine in my opinion. The reliability may come down a bit due to certain things like solid lifters and higher stresses on parts, but the build will be designed with these things in mind, so hopefully they can be minimized. As far as how the engine runs, I think the only area where I could run into problems is with an extremely high-lift cam. I really don't mind this... but honestly, the new stuff makes it really easy to control a radical engine. Did you have any other ways in mind about streetability?

Tim, yes I am running off of that switch. I've never heard of a hydro brake switch. You have one? and why?

[paradox11235]

You had better bring this thing out to colorado when you're done... And you need to send me your designs. When I get prototypes made I'll make sure to do an extra set for you.

[busmn280]

Hi Chris,

I understand that your standalone efi setup can be tweaked to give you maximum driveability for your radical street engine. I can imagine that you will have multiple maps for street and race setups. When you are venturing into the level of power that you are, you have to think about what part of the car is the weakest link. You will have to have a custom built transmission such as a wide first gear 6 speed built by Advanced Automotion if you want to stay Quattro or a some other type of transmission if you convert to rear wheel drive. Maybe you have some other configuration in mind. In addition to a transmission, you will need custom built axles, center differential, rear end, roll cage, etc. You will definitely need an upgraded braking system, cooling system, intercooler system, exhaust, multiple fuel pumps, methanol injection, larger fuel lines, dry sump oiling system, and perhaps some frame reinforcement too. I am sure you have thought about all of these necessary modifications you will have to make to reliably put down this kind of power to the pavement. When you tie all of these necessary modifications together, the overall streetabiliity of the car has the potential to be reduced. This kind of project has to be carefully planned and executed to be fun to drive not only at WOT but at sane speeds too. I am not saying that a project of this magnitude cannot be accomplished and made streetable, I am just saying that it will be a challenge. I know that you are up to the challenge!

[loxxrider]

You had better bring this thing out to colorado when you're done... And you need to send me your designs. When I get prototypes made I'll make sure to do an extra set for you.

I actually just thought about this this morning and started soldiworks up. I didn't have time to open the file as I was about to leave but I left it on to remind me to tonight as long as I get home at a decent hour. I do remember kind of finalizing the new design earlier this year but it may still require some good double check measurements and maybe a few tweaks. I'll discuss it with you more when I send the file.

[loxxrider]

Hi Chris,

I understand that your standalone efi setup can be tweaked to give you maximum driveability for your radical street engine. I can imagine that you will have multiple maps for street and race setups.

Yes there will definitely be multiple maps depending on what fuel we decide to use. I wouldn't rule out a flexfuel sensor.

When you are venturing into the level of power that you are, you have to think about what part of the car is the weakest link. You will have to have a custom built transmission such as a wide first gear 6 speed built by Advanced Automotion if you want to stay Quattro or a some other type of transmission if you convert to rear wheel drive. Maybe you have some other configuration in mind. In addition to a transmission, you will need custom built axles, center differential, rear end, roll cage, etc. You will definitely need an upgraded braking system, cooling system, intercooler system, exhaust, multiple fuel pumps, methanol injection, larger fuel lines, dry sump oiling system, and perhaps some frame reinforcement too.

Yes agreed. The car currently has brakes and suspension more than capable of handling the extra power on the street. For the track, the brakes would need to be addressed a bit more but I have other ideas in mind for better track cars. As for the trans, we've talked about using a built euro 01e tdi (with trans cooler). I choose not to deal with Scott because of the way he has treated me and some other guys on this forum who previously used to do plenty of business with him. Axles will be addressed for sure but I think we'll keep the rear diff for the time being. You just don't see them fail too often and it won't be getting thrashed on on a daily basis. Again we shall see what happens there. The intent is not to cut corners, only to reduce unnecessary cost. If something is necessary, the car will get it! The dry sump is necessary for my goals and that will be the first thing up on the table. I am hesitant to install a cage but will consider it pending the chassis' reaction to the power. The t44 can be a bit flexy so I'm sure it would benefit greatly but that may be something to focus on after the basics get sorted. The fuel system and such are givens I think!

Intercooler and exhaust are already in place (3" piping and 1400 CFM if core, extremely nice intake manifold by bank and 4" ss/ equal length tube header by hank, etc). I'm not sure the cooling system really needs an upgrade and meth won't be required for an e85 tune if I decide to go that way. I really don't know quite yet what we will end up with though.

I am sure you have thought about all of these necessary modifications you will have to make to reliably put down this kind of power to the pavement. When you tie all of these necessary modifications together, the overall streetabiliity of the car has the potential to be reduced. This kind of project has to be carefully planned and executed to be fun to drive not only at WOT but at sane speeds too. I am not saying that a project of this magnitude cannot be accomplished and made streetable, I am just saying that it will be a challenge. I know that you are up to the challenge!

[b]Agreed it will be. I small feat. Hopefully it will work if I throw enough money at it [\b]

Sorry if I make some typos. Usually when I respond to threads these days i am either extremely tired, just woke up, or am posting from my phone.

Anyway, I am looking forward to getting this moving. I can't even imagine how much fun it will be to drive plus I have another father/son muscle car project that I want to start after this is "finished".

[Kuma]

Yo, Chris, PM your home addy. I got some stuff to send to you.