Marc's 95 S6 Avant (daily driver)

GTIVR62801 · Post by **GTIVR62801** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:00 am

Sweet Marc! So I'd surmise that you're taking the S6 up to Canada?

Post by **Marc** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:01 am

GTIVR62801 wrote:Sweet Marc! So I'd surmise that you're taking the S6 up to Canada?

yep, j00 got it

3bAudios · Post by **3bAudios** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:37 am

awsome work as ususal marc, as for your welds, you guys havea 220 MIG at the shop right? I just use my neighbors when i need the power of a 220, I think im going to try to get a TIG this winter....you know of any good sources?

Post by **Marc** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:55 am

3bAudios wrote:awsome work as ususal marc, as for your welds, you guys havea 220 MIG at the shop right? I just use my neighbors when i need the power of a 220, I think im going to try to get a TIG this winter....you know of any good sources?

No, the welder I use at the shop is my Lincoln squarewave 175 TIG machine.

I'd reccomend you start off with a MIG, learn how to use that, and if you want to do aluminum then start looking into TIG. Cheap MIGs from harbor freight go for around $200 and will allow you to weld with either flux cored wire or with welding gas.

I dont see the 115v one I used to own on the site anymore, but heres a flux or gas 220v welder:

3bAudios · Post by **3bAudios** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:22 am

I was a welder for a couple years while in college so i have experience with mig/tig/stick and took a real 'welding' course in college as well, I currently have a little 110 mig thats all setup with a tank/reg etc. I use it all the time (although i just ran out of gas), just cant do anything thick, or anything alum. I have a supra intercooler i plan on modifying to use in my 5k that will require some alum. welding, as well as some projects for the orchard that will be made from alum. so thats why i was asking if you knew of any good sources to get one, thanks man

Post by **Marc** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:34 pm

3bAudios wrote:I was a welder for a couple years while in college so i have experience with mig/tig/stick and took a real 'welding' course in college as well, I currently have a little 110 mig thats all setup with a tank/reg etc. I use it all the time (although i just ran out of gas), just cant do anything thick, or anything alum. I have a supra intercooler i plan on modifying to use in my 5k that will require some alum. welding, as well as some projects for the orchard that will be made from alum. so thats why i was asking if you knew of any good sources to get one, thanks man

well, I bought my lincoln from http://www.weldingmart.com. no complaints.

I get supplies from http://www.weldingdirect.com

and of course http://www.ebay.com for all those good deals on used machines

Post by **Marc** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:53 pm

Spent some time today cleaning up the car, I figured 'winning' the dirtiest car award at the last Hartford area GTG was the last straw (hey, in my defense I had just installed the 3071 and 60lb injectors, I had tuning to do!)

So while I was at it, I fixed a small air leak around the 1.8t IAT sensor I'm using. I opted not to drill out the hole in the intake manifold so instead I altered the sensor to fit in the smaller diameter hole.

To do this, I trimmed plastic along the side of the sensor and cut a deeper grove for the o-ring and used a smaller ring to suit. I also swapped over the o-ring on the back face of the sensor and a matching grove to hold it:

this weekend I'll be spending most of my time working on the coupe, but I still have one more tweak I want to do on the downpipe to make it fit right. The downpipe tube needs to be angled by about 2 degrees as right now it really stresses the pipe getting everything bolted together.

S4turbo · Post by **S4turbo** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:36 am

Marc, do you have any plans about dyno testing or g-tech measurements of your car when the tuning is ready? That would be very interresting reading.....

Keep up the good work, you're doing what I might do in the future, main question is if I should go for at stroker to get even quicker spool.....

Johan

Post by **Marc** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:02 am

S4turbo wrote:Marc, do you have any plans about dyno testing or g-tech measurements of your car when the tuning is ready? That would be very interresting reading.....

Yes, I will most likely dyno the car on Tony's mustang dyno in the near future. Not only to produce baseline numbers but also to dial in the tuning. Its MUCH faster to do this on the dyno (and easier on my license :-o)

Keep up the good work, you're doing what I might do in the future, main question is if I should go for at stroker to get even quicker spool.....

Johan

I'll tell ya, the 3071 hits like a hammer right around 3k. Like they say, there is no replacement for displacement so if you have the budget to go stroker, go for it.

posto · Post by **posto** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:43 am

Marc.

I request you make some statements to this board regarding what you and I discussed this week.

That being the Garrett Hybrid turbos are not mechanically equal to a KKK turbo. Referring to position of everything vital, like hotside and s forth.

Being a Stromung advocate, I have to make very clear that the Gen #4 is specifically fitted very well to KKK turbos.

The interference you write about seems to indicate the Garret Hybrids are not the same physical position. THis would throw off wastegate connection, position of down tube to tie rods and so forth.

There is a high degree of market interest in Garret turbos now on the assumption they are plug and play equaivalent to a KKK.

The problem here is not the Stromung exhaust system per se, but the fact that a proactive test fitment was never performed to modify the downpipe for the Hybrids relocation.

The guys at Stromung take great care in workmanship, warranty the product and they would never let a system ship that had the interference to tie rods and so forth you describe. In fact, this interference does not exist on KKK turbo systems I have seen.

Lets set the record straight please so that Stromung's reputation is not damaged. That company would be delighted to supply you a purpose built downpipe for the Garrett series of turbos, now that the results are in.

I plan to post a notice so everyone is aware of the details. It';s ALL in the details of execution, not the assumptions.

Jeff Posto
posto@adelphia.net

Post by **Marc** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:59 am

Jeff, thanks for the reply.

I had meant to edit this thread (but forgot/got busy with other things) after learning about the differences in the Garrett hot side shoe. To set the record straight as Jeff states, there is nothing wrong with the stromung system I received, but rather the turbo placement on the GT hotside is quite different than a factory original KKK. No fault of stromung.

JShadzi · Post by **JShadzi** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:42 am

Just to jump in here, there in no one in the country with more experience installing and supporting customers with these KKK/GT turbos. We've done at least 5 installs here in shop, and have supported and spoken with dozens and dozens of customers here in the states and worldwide during the install of these turbos.

While the physical positioning is slightly different than the original KKK housing, we've had no problems installing OEM, 2Bennett, our own 034 and other custom downpipes onto this turbine housing, the only modification that is required is the removal of the CV heat shield.

Marc expressed difficulty in making the Stromug system fit with this turbine housing, so it could be something specifically different about the Stromug system that causes fitment problems in this particular application.

However we want to be clear, we haven't seen this problem with other, "non-Stromug" downpipe applications as of yet. With that said, astromug specific fit would definitely be interesting.

HTH,

Post by **Marc** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:17 am

JShadzi wrote:Just to jump in here, there in no one in the country with more experience installing and supporting customers with these KKK/GT turbos. We've done at least 5 installs here in shop, and have supported and spoken with dozens and dozens of customers here in the states and worldwide during the install of these turbos.

While the physical positioning is slightly different than the original KKK housing, we've had no problems installing OEM, 2Bennett, our own 034 and other custom downpipes onto this turbine housing, the only modification that is required is the removal of the CV heat shield.

Well, the stromung system ties the wastegate tube fairly far down the pipe at around the point where the tie rods cross the body, so pushing the whole pipe backward an 1/8" causes interference where there was none before.

Also, on a stock exhaust configuration there is a significant amount of 'slop' that you can use to take up differences in the turbo placement. For instance, the facotry exhaust uses two sleeve clamps in the middle alowing forward/back motion along with the play created by having dual 2.25" pipes as opposed to a single 3" pipe.

Marc expressed difficulty in making the Stromug system fit with this turbine housing, so it could be something specifically different about the Stromug system that causes fitment problems in this particular application.

However we want to be clear, we haven't seen this problem with other, "non-Stromug" downpipe applications as of yet. With that said, astromug specific fit would definitely be interesting.

The only other two folks that I directly know of ran into the same problem, and both of them were running stromung exhausts.

If theres a way to spec these GT turbos with a straight machined KKK hot side shoe that would be the ideal situation IMO. Most of the people installing these things in //S cars are likely to have upgraded exhaust systems.

posto · Post by **posto** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:45 am

I think Marc hit the point of interference I had not considered earlier today Javad! Excuse me if my earlier email was a bit toasty!

034 certainly has a great deal of experience indeed, no question about that.

The wastegate tube seems to be the contact point, looking at Marc's photos. He is correct the WG tube enters the downpipe (roughly) at mid-point in the vertical DP section.

The steering rod is higher than this junction, and given the closer to firewall location of the Hybrid hotside plus the Stromung WG tube protruding vertical, all this conspires to make contact at the steering rod.

The original Stromung and the 034 wastegate entry is immediately below the first downward bend off the hotside port. This is probably why downpipes built this way absorb the difference between KKK and Garret Hybrids.

I've already activated Stromung to devise a better fitment. More on that later.
Jeff Posto

JShadzi · Post by **JShadzi** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:16 pm

Yes, WG tube makes perfect sense as most other systems don't have quite that long of a WG tube and it ties into the DP before the tie rod has a chance to interfere 8)

Post by **Marc** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:20 pm

JShadzi wrote:Yes, WG tube makes perfect sense as most other systems don't have quite that long of a WG tube and it ties into the DP before the tie rod has a chance to interfere 8)

well, thats not the end of the problems. The flange outlet even when turning the wheel so no interference occurs on the pipe is still off by about 1" to the left and 1/2" down from proper alignment to the mid pipe...

germantoy · Post by **germantoy** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:14 pm

this irks me a little due to some more than poor fitment issues i expierienced recently, but ill keep that quiet.

I ran into the same problem on my 3071 and stromung. It has nothign to do with the stromung at all. let me reiterate AT ALL. the 3071's hot side is pushed out and back due to the flange thickness, compared to the rs2 unit. Next up if your 034 down pipes fit because you remove the heatshield for the CV that is unacceptable and plain lazy, there is way more than enough realestate in the c4 chasis to make that bend fit with plenty of clearence. the stromungs clear the heatshield and the tierods no problem when you make 2 clearence cut and welds, but since they are made for a true k26 type flange they have to be cut so thats the only downfall.

PRA4WX · Post by **PRA4WX** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:12 pm

Removing the cv heatshield isn't lazy, that's removing unneccasary wieght from the blimpo front end of the urs! :wink:

pro_mtn_biker · Post by **pro_mtn_biker** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:47 pm

But keeping heat off the CV is always a nice thing :wink:

S4turbo · Post by **S4turbo** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:11 am

Marc, just wandered what you needed of bits and pieces for the conversion to 034 management. Does this list cover it:

IIC ECU
Crank pully combo (034)
1,8 T temp sensor (034)
VR extension cable
Cables for connecting the IIC to the Motronic harness
JPT55 connector
Epoxy for filling the connector

Did I miss any important sensors or items that would be nice/necessary to have?

Have you lost any features from the original car from the IIC upgrade? I konw knock sensors are not in use, bur what about AC, instrument cluster?

May start an engine upgrade this winter.....

Regards, Johan

Post by **Marc** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:40 am

S4turbo wrote:Marc, just wandered what you needed of bits and pieces for the conversion to 034 management. Does this list cover it:

IIC ECU
Crank pully combo (034)
1,8 T temp sensor (034)
VR extension cable
Cables for connecting the IIC to the Motronic harness
JPT55 connector
Epoxy for filling the connector

Did I miss any important sensors or items that would be nice/necessary to have?

034 flying lead harness (which is usally included with the ECU)

Have you lost any features from the original car from the IIC upgrade? I konw knock sensors are not in use, bur what about AC, instrument cluster?

I dont get an 'idle up' when the AC is on so it idles a little rough running the air conditioning but thats about it. instrument cluster still works, etc.

Derracuda · Post by **Derracuda** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:47 am

marc, you should be able to use an idle bump solenoid from a chevy for that, i think they are electric and simple. check something from the 80's with a 350 and a carb with A/C.

Post by **Marc** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:23 pm

derracuda wrote:marc, you should be able to use an idle bump solenoid from a chevy for that, i think they are electric and simple. check something from the 80's with a 350 and a carb with A/C.

nah, if anything I'd figure out a way to drive a PWM ground to the stock valve via some sort of external box, worst case scenario.

"TheArchitect", if you're listening.. how about an option to drive 2 pin idle stablizer valves using the same interface as the current idle control pages?

Post by **Marc** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:29 pm

Ok, another update on the exhaust saga.

I made the final tweak to the downpipe on Friday. Before:

before:

after

I forgot to take that pic without the bolts in, but anyway they lined up without any forcing unlike before the re-weld.

I also took the opportunity to relocate the wideband o2 sensor to the bottom of the downpipe where it will lead a much happier and cooler life

So now onto working on my boost controler.. The settings I have work awesome up to 24psi, and then when I try to raise it up _something_ is going hawire. Boost spikes to 30psi and stays there, and I lose communication with the ecu :wtf:

(yes, the cable is fully seated when this happens).

3bAudios · Post by **3bAudios** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:24 am

awsome work as usual marc, you want to help me when i get working on the 90 again?? LOL