Justin's '85 UrQ'd 4000 20vt Project - Tuning Help?

[my2000apb]

might be another option, actually, Tim.

and yeah, I believe they're 8" wide... If not, they're 8.5" I know they're really wide. The 225s that were on those rims when I bought them actually looked stretched, as funny as it seems.

yeah or the porsche RS grey is pretty sexxxy


hmm they are prob 8's

b5 s4's came 225 and 7.5" and were pretty square on the rim

what are you runnign for tire sizes now

[jretal]

B6 A4 sized: 235/45/17. They're a bit tall for the car, but that's what I got for free

Track tires are 225/45/17, but are hoosier slicks, so their width is around a 235 anyway. Have room for 245s easily, but not sure I will need to go that wide.

[my2000apb]

thanks, im trying to decide between c5 s6 8" wide avus or 4.2 a6 wheels 8"

[WRC]

:woowoo:

[Quattro v1.0]

I love all the metal-shop projects goin' on around here lately.

[jretal]

Well... we got one slight update. The prodigal son has returned home, and I'm not necessarily happy to see it!

Quote from the bodyshop was just too high (in the order of 3-4 times my original budget) to get the car straightened out and color shot, so I'm learning how to do body work now! Schedule to get the car done for WG in August ain't happening. I can't keep putting the hours in that I've been over the past month and a half, so hopefully I can get this thing done and in the paint booth by the end of the year.

Nothing much has changed looks-wise, so no pictures to share. All I can say is it's a bloody art to get these cars smooth. The tech at the shop was a huge help (took about an hour to give me tips and tricks, etc), but it's def going to take me a fair bit of time to get this 'ol girl flat again. I'm up for the challenge, but it's going to take me a bit!

[85oceanic]

Dude... your an animal! I can't wait to see the finished product!

[Mentosman42]

absolutely love this thing, the body work is just a matter of trial and error. take your time and step away from it if you need to because once you get frustrated is when bad things happen!

[mr_aj_johnson]

Just redid the hood and headlight spoiler on my 80, about to start the trunk. It definitely takes time and patience, some of the tips I learned.

Spray everything with an epoxy primer first. This seals the metal and will prevent any bubling under the bondo (any color, doesn't have to be sandable)

For areas that are going to need a lot of finishing spray a sandable primer down. (a different color than the epoxy)

Bondo and sand till it's close. In the "lot of work" areas use the sandable primer as a sacrificial layer to show highs and lows (when you see the epoxy at the edges of the bondo you have gone far enough).

Some people use different color hardener to differentiate the layers of bondo. I found this unecessary cause I never got the same bondo to hardener ratio and each layer ended up a different shade anyway.

Spray they area you were working on before quitting for the night. That way you have a fresh canvas when you return. Primer is cheap and different colors make it easy to tell when you are sanding too much.

Don't know if this is much help, but as I had never done it before it helped me a ton. Also, beer is your enemy for this kind of work. I tried to drink and work one night and was very unhappy with the results.

[WRC]

Bummer, but for the price they wanted they didn't really want to do the job.

[Quattro v1.0]

Find a bodyman on craigslist to do the body work, then you do the prep, then haul it to get sprayed...

Get the bodyman to come to your place you will be able to see his progress and quality the whole time he is working on it.

[jretal]

Good tips, all. I need to prep and acid etch the bare metal as I go... or at least, that's what the tech told me to do as I go along. Didn't get into too many nitty gritties about that vs an epoxy primer, but I will deal with it as I go. From what I've learned though, the bondo needs to be put on bare metal (duraglass directions say so, and tech confirmed). I also have a gallon of the 3m platinum top coat filler to use as well.

Issue with paying to have the whole thing done right now is $$ (even w/ a guy on the side... plus not knowing his abilities, etc might leave me with questionable work). I'm in the process of trying to buy a house up here in NoVA, so I'm trying not to dip into the nest egg too badly for things like this. Just means that it's going to take me a bit longer and go from there. Might have been able to score a little help from a body guy for choice weekends, but want to save the help for when I really need it.

[mr_aj_johnson]

The issue with bonding directly to bare metal, is you risk rust under the bondo (what i'm told, not my experience) The epoxy primer was actually recommended to me by an airplane maintenance and painter dude who also paints cars for fun. Also I'm amazed at how easy it was to spray the single stage paint. Plus all these cars were originally single stage colors and those proved very durable with proper care.

a half gal of single stage alpine white, plus hardener and thinner came to $118.87 -that is cheap, and it was for the better paint!

[Mentosman42]

have to agree there, never had a problem getting the bondo to last on epoxy undercoating and it will help stop bubbling.


Dad has been doing frame up restorations for 25 years and thats how he always does it.


Finish metal work
epoxy undercoat
rough bondo
primer coat
finish bondo
paint



the undercoat and primer also help to fill all the needle holes that you might get that are harder to fill with bondo.

[audifreakjim]

Excellent advise. At this rate my car will be doing Battle Born in Epoxy primer!

This is very inspirational and depressing at the same time.. Nice progress! I am not looking forward to the mess in my future.

[jretal]

Very good advice... do you guys have a suggestion on what epoxy primer to use, what cutting agents, etc (maybe a shopping list of what I'd need to paint the car w/ an epoxy primer)? Also tips on prepping surfaces, how to mix/cut the primer, etc? I've never ever messed with anything paint related, so you can obviously tell that I'm a little leary and worried about f'ing it up!

Also, after reading a bit about epoxy primers being better than the acid etch stuff, I was concerned when the tech suggesting acid etching everything vs epoxy primer. You guys are kind of building on this at this point... lol.

I'm more worried about the metal than the fiberglass panels, obviously. I can continue doing some minor filler work on the fiberglass flares to get them just about smooth... or should I wait until I get the primer on until I continue?

Any and all help is MUCH appreciated!

Thanks all!

[Mentosman42]

we use dupont cr epoxy primer, just make sure whatever you start with you finish with. in reality any epoxy primer will be fine and they will come with reducing instructions.


as far as the fiberglass, i dont think your going to have a problem if you keep working on them as is.


hit the metal with 120 grit, clean it(product like final clean to get any oil off) and spray.

[HT Motorsport]

Personally I am a fan of etch prime if parts have been taken down to bare metal. If not then its not required.

My process is usually:
Media blast
Welding/shaping
Sand if needed 120grit
Lots of cleaning
Etch prime
Work it, Bondo 1 etc
120, 180 grit
Epoxy primer
Bondo & sand 120, 240 grit
Sealer/primer
Spot putty
Sand 240, 320 grit
One more primer/sealer coat
wet sand 400
Base and clear
wet sand 1200-2000
cut & polish

[jretal]

educate me a little bit... what are the benefits of using the acid etch on the bare metal vs an epoxy primer? Does it make a better bond/seal or what?

Also, when reading up on epoxy primers, a lot say you can't use them WITH a base of acid etch primer... was curious why this might be the case.

thanks all, great discussion here!

[JT4k]

educate me a little bit... what are the benefits of using the acid etch on the bare metal vs an epoxy primer? Does it make a better bond/seal or what?

Also, when reading up on epoxy primers, a lot say you can't use them WITH a base of acid etch primer... was curious why this might be the case.

thanks all, great discussion here!

Justin on the parts that you have taken down to bare metal you want to use the etch primer.... Nason is a good product and you can get it is spray cans. Since bare metal is going to be a bit lower than the rest of whats on the car this will also help bring the layers to the same level. Once you spray the bare spots then you will prep the car again and go for the base primer.... can be epoxy or urethane. I use urethane once the metal is taken care of. You cant really get a high build epoxy primer also and I like to be able to block sand so I go with a higher build urethane.

You use the etch primer on bare because it has acids in it that "etch" the surface and cause the next layer over it to stick.

I will throw some pics up soon.... I just got the etch primer on my car and will be shooting the urethane on Sunday if the weather stays around 90. Make sure to get the right activators for the climate....

Also, try to stay away from Bondo.... stick with what you were using and dont mix it as hot.... let it set and sand it while it is still a little soft. Bondo sucks and the stuff you were using is much lighter and doesnt get the little surface bubbles like Bondo does.

Paint is really not as hard as everyone makes it out to be.... it is all about the prep and how much time you put into it. Dont rush anything and you will have a better job than what the shop would have done. There is a certain element to taking care of your own car and a shop just wants your money. Check out Dupont Nason.... it is really nice stuff and sprays very well. I spent 380$ on everything I needed to respray my 4k Tornado Red.

[Mentosman42]

Personally I am a fan of etch prime if parts have been taken down to bare metal. If not then its not required.

My process is usually:
Media blast
Welding/shaping
Sand if needed 120grit
Lots of cleaning
Etch prime
Work it, Bondo 1 etc
120, 180 grit
Epoxy primer
Bondo & sand 120, 240 grit
Sealer/primer
Spot putty
Sand 240, 320 grit
One more primer/sealer coat
wet sand 400
Base and clear
wet sand 1200-2000
cut & polish

this is exactly what we would do on a show quality car, although we usually dont use etching primer. all the metal here gets shaped with 80 then 120 then epoxy primed. never had a problem with it holding up as cars my dad did 10-15 years ago still come back for maintenance and if it doesnt bubble/rust around here i dont think it will anywhere(1/2 mile from the ocean). either way you will be fine.

[jretal]

Well looks like I have my process, and will look into materials! There are a few paint distributors local to me, so I will check in with them and see what products they have to offer that will fit my needs...

Thanks, all.

Oh and, Michael, the catch with my car is that it's all bare metal... so there is no level issue b/n old paint and new... lol. I've been keeping myself quite busy with paint stripper to make the car clean! Wanted to make sure no rust was hiding under the bad paint, and I was welcomed by nothing (thankfully).

One more question: Can I put the acid etch over existing duraglass/3m filler? The rockers and the front clip are essentially done (as done as I can make them at the moment, at least), so was curious if I could paint over that stuff w/ the acid etch or not, as there are parts that have bare metal showing between the glass/filler.

[Highlander]

All this talk about bare metal preparation is interesting,seeing as I have some
bare metal to prime.

I was told to use primer/sealer on bare metal.......is that the same
as etch primer?

Cheers,

Craig

[Mentosman42]

no, etch primer has acid in it as was stated a couple posts up. the acid "etches" the metal and gives the primer a good bite. if your going over all the metal that is being painted with ~120 grit you shouldnt need to acid etch the metal.



some people swear by etching primer some people dont see the need.

[HT Motorsport]

Agreed with all comments above, etch is a personal preference, I guess I'm old school and still like it.

You can use etch over paint and filler etc, and you can paint over the etch with epoxy. Having said that if the acid has been on for more than a few hours, you need to scuff it with Scotch pads prior to the next coat in order to key the surface. It is worth noting that paint reactions can occur between coats of even the same type of paint, it is important to follow directions on flash times between coats, as well as how much reducer is used and how thick the coats are. As a general rule, if you are too quick between coats, and put on the coats too heavy you will likely get a reaction and it will wirnkle and you have to sand it ALL off and start again. The key with paint is prep, following the instructions and patience.

For products, I use:

Bondo (Generic description of plastic filler) Evercoat brand, Featherfill or quicksand.
Spot putty, again evercoat, but any epoxy is fine. Stay away form anything that does not require a hardener as it will shrink.
Primer: Mar Hyde Ultimate 2K primer, more recently I have shifted to Evercoat products.
Base & clear: PPG or Chroma.
Single Stage Urethane: I used the Summit single stage on the S4K interior, underside, engine bay etc and have been very happy with it. Its tough, easy to use, great finish and cheap.

H