The Project Pad

LarryFlint wrote:Jim
are you going to Pahrump? I think I'm going.... will let you know.

I am registered and planning on it! There is no way the flares will be done, but I will have some new strut mounts in. I still have lot's of life left in my 235 r-comps so I am not in a huge hurry. I may have them stretched on some 9.5" wheels though, lol.

This week's 034 order:
-Ground Control camber plates
-Offset subframe bushings
-Adjustable cam gear. Hank says I will get 50whp. We'll see :wink:
-One of Javad's Tupperware bowls

My goal is to dial in 5-6 degrees of caster up front, lower and rotate the steering arms, and lower the car another 1.5" and see how that does.

I am debating on if I want to drop the money on these. If I want to eliminate bump steer all together, I think I will need them.

http://www.pmwltd.com/

LOL. A lot of pressure on that cam gear eh? how much are those ball joint extenders?

ShavedQuattro wrote:LOL. A lot of pressure on that cam gear eh? how much are those ball joint extenders?

$265/pr

Wow. I can live with a little bump steer for a while

I agree, they are about twice what I would expect to pay.

There website has a 1700 dollar urS4*

*that does not include a garrett core

somewhere around here i have a spare, stepped, cam pulley key. it is good for 3.5 degrees iirc - if anyone is interested : )

Why bother going so low?

audifreakjim wrote:I am registered and planning on it! There is no way the flares will be done, but I will have some new strut mounts in. I still have lot's of life left in my 235 r-comps so I am not in a huge hurry. I may have them stretched on some 9.5" wheels though, lol.

Just put the 9.5" wheels on and roll the fenders you'll be fine in the rear (No spacer), the front you'll need spacers. right?

235's on a 4000 (Let me know when you need me to remove the post, I don't want to pollute it)

8" 4x108 R38s?

I bet you could make those flares work yourself, Jim! If I can do it (hopefully), anyone can do it

I approve of the fat 5's on the car... I swear, they look good on any car!

Mcstiff wrote:8" 4x108 R38s?

I wish, but no. 7.5" with 235/40-17" NT01's

That's the the plan, roll the fenders to take the wider wheels

Mcstiff wrote:Why bother going so low?

Is this a serious question?

Nice. I am really really curious how those extenders work out for you. I wish you just throw them on first without any other mods and get some feedback...even if you don't lower the car more than where it's at now, or just slightly to get your camber back to where you had it...

Doesn't lowering the steering arm without using balljoint extenders compound the problem?

bimmerboy wrote:Doesn't lowering the steering arm without using balljoint extenders compound the problem?

He has ball joint extenders

Toxcheap wrote:

Mcstiff wrote:Why bother going so low?

Is this a serious question?

Um yeah.

I know he is going to be wide bodied but how much is really to be gained by lowering to the extent that you need to extend your ball joints? Camber plates are not enough?

Ed, wide bopdy has nothing to do with that. It just allows him to run wider tires. Ball joint extenders allow you to lower the car more and keep better geometry on the lower control arms. Lower the car, lower center of gravity = better handling. Camber plates, again, have nothing to do with either but just allow him to correct, or dial in his camber properly so his tire wear is even. Camber plates will allow for extra castor too usually.

a_CQ wrote:Ed, wide bopdy has nothing to do with that. It just allows him to run wider tires. Ball joint extenders allow you to lower the car more and keep better geometry on the lower control arms. Lower the car, lower center of gravity = better handling.

If you go too low tires interfere with the B3 fenders correct?

How much lower than horizontal control arms are we talking <=1"? Diminishing returns? I am not convinced that this gain is worth the trouble for a "street" car (or fun track day toy).

a_CQ wrote:...even if you don't lower the car more than where it's at now, or just slightly to get your camber back to where you had it...

a_CQ wrote:Camber plates, again, have nothing to do with either but just allow him to correct, or dial in his camber properly so his tire wear is even. Camber plates will allow for extra castor too usually.

So if you are saying that the extenders bring "camber back to where you had it" then how would camber plates "have nothing to do with either"?

Ideally, if your suspension will work, you want the car milimiters off the ground.

My 1st comment you quote was in my suggestion he installs those extenders alone and get us feedback. Yes, moving that lower pivot of the strut down and changing nothing else will change his static camber from his last alignment - for example his camber would go from -1.5 to -1. Now, if he lowered the car back he could get that camber back to -1.5.

With camber plates you set static camber. With balljoint extenders you prevent camber gain during roll - in other words, as he goes through the turn and his suspension compresses his static camber will go from -1.5 to -1 for example because of how that lower control arm rotates. With the ball joint extender, the LCA outter point sits lower and his camber gain becomes smaller, or non-existent, ideally.

Toxcheap wrote:He has ball joint extenders

audifreakjim wrote:My goal is to dial in 5-6 degrees of caster up front, lower and rotate the steering arms, and lower the car another 1.5" and see how that does.

I am debating on if I want to drop the money on these. If I want to eliminate bump steer all together, I think I will need them.

http://www.pmwltd.com/

It sounds like he is planning on lowering steering arm as an intermediate step, then decide if he needs ball joint extenders. I thought that bump steer would be worse after changing the relationship between the steering arm and control arm, so that's why I'm asking.

For a before and after
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... rm-bushing

The rear on my car can easily go down another 1.5" and still have decent suspension travel, the front is a different story. Any lower and I am bouncing off the bump stops. I estimate I can raise the mount point about 40mm before I hit the hood with the tip of the strut. Realistically it will be more like 30-35 mm, plus I will gain about 10 just by the design of the spring perch. So there is my extra 1.5" of travel. Then I just have to lower the steering arms to a more neutral position, and if necessary lower the ball joints. The ball joints will be last if needed.

the Castor change to 5-6* makes a MASSIVE difference to the feel of the car, and I mean MASSIVE! You are going to love it.

As for lowering, yeah go as low as you can, you may want to contemplate shortening the strut housing while you have it out and cut up for welding. What strut inserts are you running Jim? I found that on the S4K I was bottoming the struts with 6" springs pretty badly.

The ball joint extenders will work well, providing they don't cause your ball joint to hit the rotor, given heh angle of the ball joint hole in the upright, just check before you order.

Go handling

I am running the Koni Yellow's, Haydn. Man, you really have me pumped up to get these mounts in! Porterfield just called and my -3 ferules are in so I can redo my brake lines. I think I will be happy with another 1.5" of drop for this car, I don't want it too low, it is a street car after all.