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Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:08 pm
by Rabbitracer43
I just want some input on if these valves are a decent quality for my aan stock to minor upgraded rebuilt engine. not looking for the engine to be much over maybe 300hp, so I wanted to see if I can avoid buying the Inconel valves or not. let me know your input. thanks in advance.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:34 pm
by DE80q
One thing to remember is SS vves are heavy. If you are looking to stay with stock redline, I would imagine you would be fine. If you plan to push it past there, they will probably be too heavy.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:07 pm
by carl
For intake or exhaust? Go inconel for exhaust, lots of heat going on there in a turbo app. Stainless intake sounds fine, if you're gonna rev over stock redline you'll want extra strength valve springs anyways.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:33 pm
by PRY4SNO
My build has a crate AAN head with a mere 10k km on it, and I was going to run the stock valves for now. At Hank's suggestion, I opted for a set of Ferrea exhaust valves for a mere $160. Cheap insurance, as he put it, against dropping a sodium filled valve.
From my research the Ferrea has higher quality metallurgy than the comparable Supertech valve, and are lighter.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:39 pm
by loxxrider
That statement avout metallurgy may not be true. In fact, Jeff Gerner told me quite the opposite at one point when it comes to off the shelf ferrea vs super techs. Custom order ferreas are a different story.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:20 am
by PRY4SNO
Maybe that changed over time... it was quite the thing at one point.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:11 am
by themagellan
loxxrider wrote:That statement avout metallurgy may not be true. In fact, Jeff Gerner told me quite the opposite at one point when it comes to off the shelf ferrea vs super techs. Custom order ferreas are a different story.
Heard a few horror stories (not just out platforms) I'd probably put OEM in there if not revving like a madman as previously stated.
Though if Hank said that I'm sure he's way more qualified with his point
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:02 am
by loxxrider
That was also my impression from a few years ago. I can't really comment on anything since then other than what Jeff told me. Either way though, I don't think you can go wrong with Ferrea for a low power build.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:46 am
by PRY4SNO
Or a high power build
Ferrea and ST are both excellent choices for mid-power and up. The Ferrea valves are more cost effective, and the ST springs and retainers are cheaper. As Nick has shown, it's possible to mix and match those components of the two brands to great results.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:02 pm
by loxxrider
Yes, definitely, but my point is that for a very high-end build where the valves will be beating on the seats a lot due to high spring rates, the off-the-shelf Ferrea valves may not be well suited.
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:10 pm
by PRY4SNO
Hrmm, now you've got me questioning my build lol
Ferrea wrote: VOLKSWAGEN GOLF (1990 - 1992) 2.0L (9A) EXHAUST, STOCK SIZE 6000 SERIES COMPETITION VALVES
1.8L - DOHC 16 Valve (PL)
Exhaust
Head Diameter: 28.1 mm
Stem Diameter: 6.93 mm
Overall Length: 98.3 mm
Tip Length: 2.8 mm
Reference: 22" Flo Radius Groove. Stock Size. Special Alloy
Pretty sure these are the ones, poached from a 9A engine.
A quick google search shows less than I'd like about the specs on the valves... and that "special alloy."
Is there a ceiling for their off the shelf stuff that people have been hitting, or is it mostly educated guesses?
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:15 pm
by PRY4SNO
More marketing:
www.nolimitmotorsport.com wrote:The Ferrea 6000 Series Competition Valves are designed to provide excellent reliability in an environment of high spring pressures and roller cams, at a budget price. They have higher fatigue resistance and tensile strengths than their competitor’s best offerings.
To manufacture the valves they use their exclusive two-step slow forging process using EV8 stainless steel on both intake and exhaust valves. Ferrea provides a special heat-treatment and stress relieving process, along with hard chrome stems and friction-welded hard tips. Ferrea finishes with a swirl polished head. The valves feature flow improvements to deliver the power needed for today’s sophisticated racing engines.
From the looks of things, an all-out build would do well to go with the Competition Plus series.
www.nolimitmotorsport.com wrote: Ferrea Racing Component’s Competition Plus Valves have built a reputation as the industry’s most reliable racing valve. Ferrea is dedicated to providing the absolute best product on the market. Ferrea's extensive R & D programs provide technological enhancements that are implemented in each of their competition plus valves. They are engineered for high rpm’s, high horsepower racing engines, and are chosen by many top Drag, Oval Track, Road Racing and Sprint Car teams. To manufacture the valves we use special aerospace quality alloys, including the EV8-Z18, which provides high tensile strength. An exclusive two-step slow forging process ensures proper grain flow and virtually eliminates any damage to the material structure. The valves are then heat-treated and stress-relieved over a 48-hour period, which is the crucial base of our molecular integrity. These valves feature avionics-quality hard chrome along with a specially applied hard tip. Our engineering staff at Ferrea spends countless hours conducting flow bench tests to achieve an optimum balance of flow, velocity and efficiency in the design of these valves. As a result, these valves incorporate smoother radiuses and unique undercuts. These exclusive features are what make the Ferrea Competition Plus Valves unequalled in performance and reliability! The evolution in volumetric efficiency of today’s competition engines has increased the average engine EGT. These higher Exhaust Gas Temperatures decrease the longevity of the valves as well as creating higher levels of metallurgical fatigue. These increased stress loads create an environment in the engine conducive to valve failure. The exhaust valves in the Competition Plus series are manufactured from Ultra High Strength, High Temp Nickel Stainless Steel Alloys. Ferrea first used this material with great success during the development of a very high stress, high temp endurance racing program.
Listed below are some qualities of the Ferrea Competition Plus Exhaust Valve material:
Tensile strength increased by 20% at high temperature
Fatigue resistance increased by 20%
Valve seat life increased by 25%
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:23 pm
by loxxrider
I wouldn't worry about it too much. I too was under the impression that Ferrea was better than Supertech in general, but Jeff told me he had some serious quality control issues with the "normal" ones and I believe something was said about China... or somewhere overseas at least. That is to be expected from a major manufacturer, but when the quality is affected in a negative way, it is definitely cause for concern.
I have been looking for the conversation he and I had so I can reference it, but I can't seem to find it. I believe when he was talking about the higher end ones, he was probably referring to that competition plus line. I don't think those can be found "off the shelf" for our engines. Either way, that would definitely be the way to go for a build that pushes the limits of what we are used to hearing about power and RPM-wise.
I'm sure their normal product is fine for 8500 RPM or so, but make sure to order extra so you can throw out the bad ones and still have enough left for your head
Re: Supertech stainless nitride coated valves?
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:41 pm
by Rabbitracer43
Awesome info thanks. I think I'll go with the Supertech valves just because I know what I'm getting. It will be stock redline so no issues on weight. Also like stated I did find it weird with the ferra valves listed as super alloy but not really telling what it is.