The Project Pad

Time for a new project that isn't a BMW! REJOICE!

You guys know the story of this one from the "Dreaming of a T44 Avant" thread I made, but here's the short story. I currently drive a Cayenne Turbo S for work. I work in the oilfield and go to various rigs all over the PA/WV/OH area. I typically have to drive about 500 miles round trip 2-3 times a month. The vehicle I use has to be AWD or 4WD, have some ground clearance, and be in good shape. The Cayenne is all of these things, but it is also a bit of a burden on my wallet, especially since the oilfield has been slowing down lately. With that, our bonuses, vehicle allowances, and what little vacation we have has all been cut. So, in the spirit of being fiscally responsible I set out to find something to duplicate the Cayenne's capabilities while also saving some money.

I searched high and low and tried to be as creative as possible to figure out what I could possibly use to replace the Cayenne. It would have to be AWD or 4WD, practical enough to store all of my stuff while I'm living out of a trailer on a rig, have some ground clearance to get through rough back roads and rig roads, be relatively safe, reliable, fun, and affordable... oh, and I wanted a manual transmission and something that wouldn't make the rig hands think I'm a dick (any new-ish european car is out the window). Phew! That's a tall order! I looked in all different price ranges and styles. I even went to a Subaru dealer to look at STIs, but they (the dealer) put a bad taste in my mouth. I think that's about the closest thing to what I need though, but I wouldn't be saving much money.

What it all came down to was that I couldn't find anything to suit my needs better than a 25 year old Audi avant

So the search for an avant began. It was half-hearted at first, but then after I convinced myself enough that this would be a good idea I got a little more serious. I wanted to find a 200 20v avant which was either restored or maintained with an open checkbook. I found that silver avant with around 60k miles which had essentially been restored and tried to buy it for what is probably the top of the market for a 200 avant ($10k). I was willing to pay asking price and was the first buyer to contact the seller, but he shafted me and sold it out from under me. In hindsight, I'm kind of glad I didn't get it because upon seeing the car, while it was nice, the paint wasn't that great, and I'm not sure what or how the body work was done to it (it had a crease in the passenger rear quarter panel which had to be fixed). It was undeniably in good mechanical shape, but also at the top of my budget.

Then I found a nice gold (bamboo) avant with relatively low miles (around 130k), but it sounded like it hadn't really been maintained the way I would have liked. The seller wasn't able to inspire much confidence in the car's mechanical aptitude. It would have been fine as a local daily driver, but I didn't feel I could trust it for my needs. This one was priced below the silver car, but only by a few thousand dollars.

Finally, I was introduced to this beautiful, blue avant. Everything seemed great about it except that it had fairly high mileage at 226k miles. I almost wrote it off, but it looked so good in the pictures that I had to investigate further. After lengthy discussion with the seller, he sent me receipts for over 16k worth of work done to the car in the past decade. There are/were more receipts, but they have been lost to the past. That doesn't count the first owner either. I have a letter from him noting other work that was done in his ownership. The evidence shows that from it's inception, this car has been absolutely pampered. I've been told that it's always been garaged too and that it was always a PNW car and thus never saw road salt. The carfax verifies the location claim and the receipts do too as well as the mileage claim.

It has had everything from the steering rack to the driveshaft, to the headliner replaced as needed. The seller was able to inspire a lot of confidence in the car for me through the receipts, his words, and Apikol's inspection report of the car.

Well, that's enough of that for now. Let's get to the more fun and exciting stuff.

Vehicle Details
-1991 Audi 200 20v Avant
-Lago blue, fairly clean paint
-Platinum (gray) interior with SPORT SEATS!


Current MODS!
-Euro headlights
-Porsche Big Red (993 Turbo) front brakes
-323 mm A8 rotors
-2B Strut bar
-Apikol rear diff mount
-Apikol snub mount
-Chip (not sure which one)
-3" exhaust (custom)
-Brass dizzy gear, correct dizzy rotor
-H&R springs with Koni adjustables
-Ronal R28 wheels

Mods added after purchase:

-Southbend Stage 3 clutch
-3" electronic exhaust dump
-Autotech adjustable cam gear
-Hardened crank cog



Cool Stuff it comes with
-Second set of euro headlights
-OEM radio
-Original front floor mats in addition to weathertech ones
-OEM rear cargo cover
-Set of winter tires
-Roof rack

Recent(ish) Maintenance
-Master cylinder at 153k
-MAF at 154k
-Wiper linkage and motor, ignition switch and lock cylinder BPV, backup light switch, etc. at 164k
-PS rack and hoses at 169k
-Rear brakes (and new calipers) at 170k
-Soldered whole cluster at 173k
-T-belt and all associated components, 02 sensor, fuel and air filters, dizzy cap and rotor, aux coolant pump at 208k
-Brake bomb and recirc flap spring replaced at 213k
-New battery and left rear power windor motor at 213k
-Hydraulic pump replaced at 215k
-Brake fluid flush and replace alternator and headliner at 216k
-Oil, trans, diff oil and t-stat, coolant replaced at 218k
-Fuel system flush at 219k
-LF CV boot, PS suction hose and o-ring at 219k
-Replace fuel pump at 220k
-VC gasket at 221k
-New reman driveshaft, Apikol snub mount, Apikol rear diff mount, 034 trans mounts, 034 engine mounts (street density, UGH!... seller didn't know better)
-Replace trans fluid (to try to help shifting which got a little notchier after installing the 034 trans and engine mounts)
-Alignment and upper rear control arms at 222k
-New front pads for 993 TT calipers and A8 323mm rotors, Apikol RS2 brake brackets
-New heated washer nozzles and full washer fluid line at 224k
-New rear pads and rotors, brake fluid flush

Older Maintenance
-New steering stabilizer, belts, control arm bushings (delrin?), new vac lines
-Seat heaters fixed, bomb, clutch, trans, rad, all hoses, ps pump, and one window reg
-t-belt, lifters, boots (CV?), bearings (wheel?), after run pump, regulators and locks, METAL DIZZY GEAR, plugs and wires, etc.

Maintenance completed after purchase:
-New Southbend Stg. 3 clutch, rear main seal, selector shaft seal, shift bushing and repaired shift ball at bushing (was loose and had to be welded back on) at 227k
-New silicone boost hoses (except TB hose) and vacuum lines at 228k
-Fixed rear hatch light wiring, right rear window reg and motor (new OEM reg, used OEM motor) at 228.5k
-Washer fluid reservoir at 229k
-Timing belt, water pump, thermostat, heater core, blower motor, adjust wiper linkage, new carbon timing cover, Autotech adjustable cam pulley, hardened crank cog installed at 230k

Current Unresolved Issues
-Passenger rear window reg needs replaced *FIXED*
-Somethig wrong with sunroof mechanism
-Headliner is new, but the sunroof part of it was not replaced and is starting to sag now
-Scuff on the front bumper
-Rock chips on the hood
-Windshield washer pump seal leaks *FIXED*
-Trans selector shaft seal weeps *FIXED*
-Clutch engages a bit high, and sometimes it is a little difficult to get into gear when first started up in the morning. *FIXED*
-Has new 034 engine and trans mounts... yes, this is an issue I plan to resolve
-Airbag light is on due to (apparently) worn clock spring



Game Plan / Future Mods

The game plan is to make sure this car is as reliable as possibly possible and as tough as it can be to withstand the stresses of driving in winter and in the oilfield.

Step 1. Fix all unresolved problems above.

Protection
-3M film on the front of the car
-Clear protective film (thick) for headlights
-Protective film for windshield (possibly)
-Some kind of protective coating for the rest of the paint to guard against UV damage and chemical damage (diesel and oil-based drilling mud particulates in the air)
-Special undercoating to protect from winter salt (haven't researched this much yet)
-Might switch out to complete weather tech floor liners if they make them for these cars
-Window tint to protect interior from UV
-Custom windshield shade thing *DONE*
-Mud flaps? That'll be a hard find! *edit* nevermind, it already has them! WOO!

Sound - I'll be spending a lot of time in the car and I love music, so I need good sound!
-Comes with Focal speakers for front
-Need more speakers for rear doors and such
-Sub and amp *JL8w7 AE3 installed with box and amp
-Amp for speakers
-DSP (MS8)
-Already has a nice Pioneer (I believe) head unit

Reliability

-New clutch... I'm thinking SouthBend Stage 4 or similar, you know... just in case? *DONE* with SB stg. 3
-Silicone boost hoses from 2B or similar *DONE*
-Silicone coolant hoses
-Watch secondary rad for leaks... remove and loop if leaks detected
-Strap intercooler

(the car supposedly already has all new vac lines)

-Apikol trans mounts
-Hank? HPR? motor mounts (Apikol doesn't make any motor mounts for urI5)
-VEMS! (because then I don't have to worry about vac leaks, etc... I can just drive open TB if needed )
-Will carry spares with me such as fuel pump relay, etc.
-Suggestions welcome

Performance
-VEMS
-Misc suspension bushings, sway bars
-MAYBE a bigger turbo, especially if the stock one goes. I'd run it on stock manifold. EFR preferably. Stock intercooler


Pictures from the PO

And what about getting it from Colorado to Baltimore you say?

The current plan is to have Project Pad member Drew C drive it from Colorado to Baltimore, MD, a 24 hour drive. I have word that he's a pretty decent photographer, so let's hope he can share his adventure with us afterward. This will happen around the 18th of this month.

Once it gets here, I will need to do some fast paperwork. I don't have a permanent residence anywhere up here. All of my cars are registered in Florida, but I can't get down to Florida with the car currently due to work, so I will have to have someone else take care of that for me. I didn't think it was going to be possible to do that, but I can give power of attourney to a family member down there to take care of the transaction and hand over any paperwork. The VIN also has to be verified, but an out of state dealer can do that as long as it's on their letterhead.

The plan is to take care of all of that before Drew makes his trip. That way the car will be registered in my name, have my insurance on it, and he will have copies of the old title, bill of sale, and a form stating that he is delivering the car, etc. to keep him safe from being hassled along the way.

It's going to be a hectic two weeks! Hopefully all goes smoothly and I will see some of you guys at Carlisle this year in the RACEWGN (not appropriate until it has a bigger turbo actually).

I'm excited to see you try to practice restraint with another type 44...

Let's gooooo!! I'm so excited you're picking this up. This has got to be one of my favorite 200's out there. I've had pictures of it saved since before I knew anything about it. I'll be monitoring this thread to see when you decide to drop the revver engine in it.

If you're going for dead-nuts reliable, might be a good idea to preemptively replace the hall effect sender if it hasn't yet. Or at least carry a spare dizzy. That's all I got.

k2exoman wrote:I'm excited to see you try to practice restraint with another type 44...

Aktapod wrote:Let's gooooo!! I'm so excited you're picking this up. This has got to be one of my favorite 200's out there. I've had pictures of it saved since before I knew anything about it. I'll be monitoring this thread to see when you decide to drop the revver engine in it.

If you're going for dead-nuts reliable, might be a good idea to preemptively replace the hall effect sender if it hasn't yet. Or at least carry a spare dizzy. That's all I got.

LOL! You guys

This would be sweet with the revver in it, but I'd barely get a year out of it before it'd need a rebuild lol

Good idea on the hall sensor. I'll try to do that one day when I have some time off. Do you have to take the cams out to get the dizzy out? If so, that'd be a great time to put some 7A cams in... Oh, and that might be one more reason to run VEMS. I believe it can run without one sensor or the other, just have to get lucky when you're cranking (50-50 chance to get it right without the VR sensors working). Maybe it doesn't work that way if the hall goes bad though. I'm not sure.

Your signature roster is gonna get really long lol

Great score, and the back story makes for good read.

Damn Chris! Good choice! Clean car... Seems to be well taken care of. It kind of gives me an Avant itch. Don't forget about the 200 though.

I see you going crazy on this thing as well. LOL.

However, in the other direction than your Revver. How about some stump puller motor?
Diesel 2.5 block, early spooling turbo with some breathing capacity that bolts on (relatively speaking). Volvo K24-7400 or some such?
Some modern injectors to save a little fuel.

Think big ass torque that pulls like a train at 2500-3000 and cruises smooth at 70mph. TDI trans with 0.56 6th. A guy here has one now on his S4 and says that it needs some boost to maintain speed. It runs 2500rpm at 100mph.

Again, I am living vicariously my Audi big power dreams though the 'net.

The TDI trans won't quite be that low. It's about 2000rpm at 65mph/100kph, and 2700rpm at 140kph.

But still epic gearing.

Lmk if you want my trans, I'll be parting the A6 as soon as I find a replacement

PRY4SNO wrote:Your signature roster is gonna get really long lol

Great score, and the back story makes for good read.

Yes, indeed. I really never wanted it to get this long! I hope to trim it down by at least one by selling the Cayenne soon. I never would have thought I'd have 9(ish) cars by now lol. And to think I'm considering putting a deposit on an M2! AHH!

2.5TYPE44 wrote:Damn Chris! Good choice! Clean car... Seems to be well taken care of. It kind of gives me an Avant itch. Don't forget about the 200 though.

Why thank you. I never saw myself in an avant actually, but the need has arisen and I think Nick's avant may have subliminally inspired me

ChrisAudi80 wrote:I see you going crazy on this thing as well. LOL.

However, in the other direction than your Revver. How about some stump puller motor?
Diesel 2.5 block, early spooling turbo with some breathing capacity that bolts on (relatively speaking). Volvo K24-7400 or some such?
Some modern injectors to save a little fuel.

Think big ass torque that pulls like a train at 2500-3000 and cruises smooth at 70mph. TDI trans with 0.56 6th. A guy here has one now on his S4 and says that it needs some boost to maintain speed. It runs 2500rpm at 100mph.

Again, I am living vicariously my Audi big power dreams though the 'net.

Haha! Not to ruin your dreams, but actually I don't really have the ability for the car to be down for long enough to do that kind of work on it, and even if I did, I'm never home to do the work. I could leave it with someone else, but I don't really want to drive any of my other cars out to the rig where I might need 4WD (and I'm damned sure not driving the M5 out here lol).

However, if I did have the ability to do that with the car, I totally would! I'd put one of the smaller EFR turbos on there with a tall deck stroker and a TDI trans for sure. For now, I think I'll live with the stock drivetrain with some hope to put an EFR on at some point.

chaloux wrote:The TDI trans won't quite be that low. It's about 2000rpm at 65mph/100kph, and 2700rpm at 140kph.

But still epic gearing.

Lmk if you want my trans, I'll be parting the A6 as soon as I find a replacement

I would love to take it off of your hands, but not for this car. Is it the euro TDI one with oil cooler and everything? If so, I might need that for my sedan.

It is the euro TDI but no oil cooler. Or if there is I haven't seen it, lol.

Let me get with whoever and see if it's the one I need then.

Wow, love it, I'm so jealous !

Lago blue is lovely color !

Love this car, I hope it is everything you dream of it to be for you. I'm actually surprised by the distributor and VEMS suggestions if your goals are to keep it daily and reliable. I understand it completely that if tuned correctly, and everything is working as intended there isn't much to fear due to the lack of knock sensors. However if you do have a currently well working car that you could possibly in the near future, use a chip via marc for a larger compressor(I heard confirmation you were traveling to IROZ HQ to write chips for URS4/3B Motronic chips?) (Pretty please) or even just enjoy the current levels I think you may 'enjoy' the car for it being what it is, a running car that isn't much of a running project. I think the motronic unit gives a huge amount of reliability overall, and works well even when everything doesn't. It includes a lot of nice blink codes that are part issue specific, not to mention the car having some primative limp mode features, that allow the car to run rather well with a single crank/engine sensor, bad intercooler pipe, detonation = fuel cut. Sometimes it's nice when you just need to drive the car, and don't have time to be arranging settings for a problem that you don't have time to deal with. Also it's 1400$ and maybe i'm just not up to date with VEMS and how reliable it can be in a proper application(nick?). The distributor is really great when you have the brass ring and rotor, I really don't see a huge need to go with coils unless your goals are lofty even with VEMS.

Anyway, it's awesome and I hope you enjoy it for what you want it to be I think you'll make a lot of people laugh at the rig sites giving them rides. Hell you could even camp in this without any problem when it gets a little warmer.

Goodluck DrewC on the trip! I hope it goes well, and is actually enjoyable rather than a mad dash to the finish.

Loxx Hope you keep writing posts like this, it was great to read and made me retrieve my password to post a comment. The enthusiasm is admirable, and to go to the extent of having someone register the car for you is shear determination. Cheers man.

YES!!! I'm so behind on the forums... Can't believe I missed this.

themagellan wrote:Love this car, I hope it is everything you dream of it to be for you. I'm actually surprised by the distributor and VEMS suggestions if your goals are to keep it daily and reliable. I understand it completely that if tuned correctly, and everything is working as intended there isn't much to fear due to the lack of knock sensors. However if you do have a currently well working car that you could possibly in the near future, use a chip via marc for a larger compressor(I heard confirmation you were traveling to IROZ HQ to write chips for URS4/3B Motronic chips?) (Pretty please) or even just enjoy the current levels I think you may 'enjoy' the car for it being what it is, a running car that isn't much of a running project. I think the motronic unit gives a huge amount of reliability overall, and works well even when everything doesn't. It includes a lot of nice blink codes that are part issue specific, not to mention the car having some primative limp mode features, that allow the car to run rather well with a single crank/engine sensor, bad intercooler pipe, detonation = fuel cut. Sometimes it's nice when you just need to drive the car, and don't have time to be arranging settings for a problem that you don't have time to deal with. Also it's 1400$ and maybe i'm just not up to date with VEMS and how reliable it can be in a proper application(nick?). The distributor is really great when you have the brass ring and rotor, I really don't see a huge need to go with coils unless your goals are lofty even with VEMS.

Anyway, it's awesome and I hope you enjoy it for what you want it to be I think you'll make a lot of people laugh at the rig sites giving them rides. Hell you could even camp in this without any problem when it gets a little warmer.

Goodluck DrewC on the trip! I hope it goes well, and is actually enjoyable rather than a mad dash to the finish.

Loxx Hope you keep writing posts like this, it was great to read and made me retrieve my password to post a comment. The enthusiasm is admirable, and to go to the extent of having someone register the car for you is shear determination. Cheers man.

Alright, finally found the time and ability to write this post. I forgot the charger for my computer in Baltimore, and didn't want to type it all on my phone.

I'm not sure if you were following my thread at the time over on MG, but I put VEMS in my 200 when it was pretty much stock otherwise. I used the car to get back and forth from school at the time and do whatever else I needed it for. Having VEMS on it was a little tough at first because it was one of the first plug and play 3B setups in the states, but after the issues were ironed out, the car was actually much more reliable on VEMS. VEMS will do all of the things motronic will (except blink codes) while also running beautifully even with no turbo on the car if you tune it right. You could have the biggest boost leak in the world and on VEMS you'd just be driving a pretty mean NA 5 cylinder, while on Motronic you'd be going very slowly or be stuck.

The other thing is when you use a plug and play VEMS, it can be swapped back to Motronic in a matter of seconds. Just plug the old ECU back in, swap one wire, and go... especially if you're running VEMS with the distributor. In my opinion, having both options is what makes the situation so robust.

I don't think I mentioned coils anywhere, but I still do think it'd be a nice upgrade for reliability's sake because, again, they can easily be swapped for the distributor setup if needed. It only takes a few minutes.

As far as the tune and knock, I have never had an issue tuning Really though, as long as the tune is kept conservative, there is no reason to cross into the knock threshold on these engines. I really do see VEMS as a reliability upgrade. That should speak volumes for my confidence in it.

Hooray! long wanted to read about this car and see more photos! Good luck with it!))

Thanks! I'm hoping to have it registered im the next day or two and then it is probably getting a southbend stage 3 clutch, then hopefully it'll get here safely soon after.

Need a vote or two...

If I was going to put a bigger turbo on this car, it'd probably be an efr, the one around 30r ish size. They can make 350whp on 93 pretty easily I think. I wouldn't push it much, maybe put some rods in.

I'm thinking southbend stage 3, but maybe I'd go with stage 4? Stage 3 can hold 450 ft lb.

Flywheel... Stay stock? I'm damn sure not putting an 034 one in, so that's not in the cards.

Rear main seal. I've been told it's an if it ain't broke don't fix it type of thing because people have had bad luck with new ones leaking. I've been told this by apikol and by others here. However, I'm curious if this is with a specific style of rear main seal or not. I like to replace things while I'm in there if I can and a quality part should not be a problem if installed correctly. I know there is an updated rear main for the AAN and 3b with the seal integrated into the metal part, but Hank just told me about using a 1.8t rear main seal. I guess it's different? I'd like clarification on this.

the 6758 is a great friggin turbo. Super quick spool, and really awesome pump gas numbers considering it's size (and even better e85 numbers). Definitely fun to drive with it on there.

I like the sound of all of this honestly. I'd stick with OE flywheel.

I used the 1.8T rear main last time I was fighting it. It's integrated into the flange and has the newer style seals with the nice felt dust seal. Much less failure-prone than the old spring loaded rubber seals. The only downside is you should drop the pan to do it since the pan seals on part of the flange.

audifreakjim wrote:I used the 1.8T rear main last time I was fighting it. It's integrated into the flange and has the newer style seals with the nice felt dust seal. Much less failure-prone than the old spring loaded rubber seals. The only downside is you should drop the pan to do it since the pan seals on part of the flange.

Are all the 1.8T rear mains the same? Sounds like I should upgrade mine on the 7A before it goes in. I was planning on just using the 20v one that came in the reseal kit.

Thanks guys. Any brand of rear main that you have used and worked well? I hate not being able to get the OEM one, or am I mistaken that you can't get one?

Looks like you can get a genuine one for $88. I think that's what I'll go with. It's part number 028103171B if I looked it up correctly.

Just checked and a link Hank sent me matches the part number. I can't see why one of these would cause a problem.

So I'll be having apikol install the clutch, rear main seal, resurface flywheel if needed (anyone have recommendation on if that should always be done?) new selector shaft seal and new selector bushing so I don't have to worry about the linkage popping off like it was in my sedan after I took it off the first time. I guess they might have to reseal the oil pan too if they have to take that off for the rear main.

There is a dizzy hall sensor write up on 12v.org, no need to pull the cams.