The Project Pad

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This space is now going to be used as a working index of the build's various phases. I'll update with milestones as soon as I can. For now, the link below is for the beginning of the last major build phase for the powertrain of this car (hopefully )

Ok, so the car went through a stock turbo phase, then a medium turbo phase (56mm Holset H1C... very similar to a 30r), and now it is on its BIG turbo phase. I hope this is the last setup it is ever on aside from some slight tweaks. Basically all of the "external" fixings are there for 1000 chp (at least). Hank has made me a beautiful intake manifold with CNC velocity stacks, runners, flanges, quick disconnect fittings for vac lines AND main throttle body connection; a tubular, equal length exhaust manifold; 4" downpipe with wastegate re-route, some engine mounts, etc. all to get this phase of the build started. Thanks Hank! Also, thank you Marc Swanson for your continued tech support (even if sometimes its just so I can talk myself through a problem )and everyone who reads this thread. You have all helped me out greatly at one point or another and I can't thank you all enough!

I've driven the car a few times recently, and it is definitely fun even at 30% throttle and about 20 psi. Since I work in Saudi Arabia for most of the year, I've decided to send the car to EFI Express in NH where Marc and his guys will complete the final engine build on this car. The basic plan is dry sump, solid lifters, big cams, 750-800 awhp, and 11k RPM. This phase of the build starts here:

http://motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=6& ... ead#unread

Keep an eye our for progress and enjoy!

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Original post
Alright guys, I figured instead of making a bunch of threads about different things pertaining to my car, it would be a good idea to just get everything in one place...especially because I have big plans for it in the future.

First a few things about the car. I purchased it about a month ago from a Lawyer. Before him, it was owned by a doctor. I am the third owner. Jeff from 034 found the car for me in about a day and I knew I wanted it as soon as I heard a little about it.

The car is nearly showroom quality. Its ridiculous. I honestly cant find anything wrong with the car cosmetically. Of course, the engine is in great condition too except for a few small things which I will go into shortly.

The reason I bought the car originally was because I have had dreams of a awd 20v 5-cyl car for a while. I got all the fun I could out of FWD and 4 cylinders in my previous project. Time to move on. I also needed a good daily driver for traveling back and forth from college. I could swap the motor into a 90 or coupe, but I think its staying in this car for a good long while. I like the idea of a sleeper sedan anyhow.

So, as of right now, the plan involves a 35r. That is my middle of the road turbo. 30r would be the smallest I would go, and 42 is probably a little to big to be fun. I am familiar with lag though due to my non-bb 50 trim on my 1.8t.

What I have in mind is just getting it really solid right now (fixing small leaks, replacing vacuum lines, etc), then next summer, I plan to pull the engine, throw some SCATs in (maybe a little more), some valve springs, etc...and get it running on IIc. Then in the next year, I will start fabbing some parts up for my new little snail buddy.

Oh, I also plan to leave the appearance mostly stock. I like the stock bbs's, but I might think about throwing my fat 5's on there for fun

Here are some pictures of the car, and a pchop of what the 5's would look like. lmk what you guys think 8)









I think they flow really well



Now onto a few small issues. My crank breather/vc breather broke on me. I am pretty sure I have that all figured out. I will be doing the vortex catch can from 034, I just need to know the diameters of the hoses I will need, and the correct T to go with it.

The other issue I have, is the power steering makes a bit of noise. There is fluid in the reservoir, but one of the hoses is leaking a bit. I should just be able to take the hose to napa and have them make new pressure fittings for it, but I figured someone might have a little useful input. The hose is the one that goes to the top of the pump, from the lower side of the reservoir.

Great looking car! Also Love the paint, and the bbs rims... diggin it! Good luck w/ the build up! Gotta love sleepers! :-D

Thanks for the compliments!

So I have been thinking about what turbo I want to go with on this car. I'm honestly open to a lot, but I definitely don't want something for the weak of heart.

Like I think I stated above, I am quite accustomed to lag, although I definitely am not its biggest fan.

I could be seduced into the spool of a 3071 or 76 (30r)...but then again, I could see myself going all out on this one and just shooting for the sky...with turbos that I feel almost dirty for talking about :-D

"Middle" of the road to me is a 35r I think. Here's where I suppose I could fill in a little more of the plans for the car...as well as a place for you all to start making suggestions or voicing your opinions.

I definitely plan on IIc and on a built bottom end. I will probably go with SCAT rods as I liked them in my previous project. I don't think pistons will be necessary, as I know the stock units are pretty high-quality. If its recommended though, I will not skimp out. Basically I want the bottom ready for whatever I want to throw at it...the most I would suspect would be around 500wheel.

Next would be head work. I would only want mild work done. Maybe a mild porting and some springs/retainers, etc.

I have all the hardware stuff straight I think. That shouldnt be an issue. (manifold, etc.)

The only thing that worries me is the transmission. I know up in the mid-4's and around 500whp, the tranny is like yeah [borat] not so much. [/borat] I have been told that the logical progression would be a built S4 trans...and I KNOW that is NOT cheap at all. I'm certainly not the type to do crazy drag launches everywhere. I am more of a roller, but some day, I know I will want to get some track times in this car. Running skinny, crap tires on the street can help I suppose, but whats the real way to approach this issue?

Please feel free to voice your opinions on all of this! I am definitely curious to hear what everyone has to say.

Here are a few shots from last night btw...enjoy




I think its great such a cool throw back

So I got my vortex catch can from 034 in the mail yesterday.

I was thinking about mounting it on the little tab that used to be for a washer reservoir in other cars (but its empty on the 200)...the problem there is that there are some little electrical things that get in the way there. Also, it would be hard to get it to fit without it hitting the hood when its down.

The other option I had in mind is down where the airbox used to be. I have a filter on a stick there for right now, and there is plenty of space. There is a little support in there that runs all the way up the side of the bay that I was thinking about hose clamping the whole can to for easy removal since I will have to be draining it from time to time. The only thing is, I thought I heard something about keeping the can up high...also, its pretty far away from the block breather. I was just wondering if anyone sees a problem with this? If not, thats great because there is just so much space to work with there that it will make things a lot easier on me.

Thanks in advance for any help!

nice start. it'd be even better without that 'sox sticker.

lol I didn't put that there. Its from the previous owner. I just haven't removed it because its put on with gorilla glue or something and I don't want to take it off until I can get a solvent to help. :wink:

Well, I got the catch can in yesterday. Here is what I posted in the 1.8t forums on vwvortex in the advertisement thread about the catch can listed by INA. For some reason lots of people wanted pics of it installed.

"As promised...(not a 1.8t, but it shouldn't matter much besides the routing of the lines. )







and one more of my beautiful engine =)

"

first off i apologize for being a n00b :bashtard:.

second, what is the function of a catch can? where is it installed on the motor (i can see the physical location in your pics)

i'm still new to the motor side of things on a car.

thegetawaycar wrote:first off i apologize for being a n00b :bashtard:.

second, what is the function of a catch can? where is it installed on the motor (i can see the physical location in your pics)

i'm still new to the motor side of things on a car.

Haha thats ok, I am a n00b too when it comes to this engine to tell you the truth.

Most (if not all) cars don't come with a catch can stock...so there is no stock catch can location.

What it replaced is just a hose that comes from the block breather, and goes to a constant vacuum source...I.E., a connection pre-turbo on the inlet pipe. There are various reasons for this including emissions, and mainly as just a good ventilation system.

The thing is, there may be some oil droplets that come with that...and apparently these engines do quite a bit of it. Maybe that is mostly from the valve cover though. Half of the reason I did the catch can was because I know Ill be tapping the VC to have a port on it to also run to the catch can. That is where I hear that a LOT of people get lots of blowby from, and I've also heard that its almost essential to do on a bigger turbo equipped 20vt.

In my application, i will have to pull it out and drain it every once in a while when it starts to get full of oil.

I'm not really sure how else to explain it, so it that doesn't help, maybe someone else will chime in. You can also read about PCV's here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCV_valve

If some people would respond to this, I would definitely appreciate it. Even if you don't have hands-on experience.

I just want to decide on what turbo to go with on this car.

Doesn't necessarily have to be a garrett.

I feel like a 35r is going to be too small...

and I feel like a 42 is going to be too big unless the car revs out to like 9k which it won't.

I'd be cool with full boost by 5 and then rev it out to 8.5k...and I was thinking something a like a 42 would do that...but then its like I just need someone to talk me out of that because I bet it won't be fun waiting for the boost. The other issue of course is the tranny once you surpass about 500...I think that could be taken care of though. Hopefully by the time I need that, I will be able to afford it more readily.

Things are looking good for the 200's future because I have a good job atm, and the jetta is nearly sold which will make for a LOT of extra left over for the new baby

Someone just give me a :slap: if I'm crazy for thinking of bigger than a 35r...I have heard of a turbo that spools like a 35r and makes 40r power tho.....................

***edit*** now that I think about it, I would like to know some info on different exh. housings too. Like what most run here. Big 35r might solve the issue here.

Just how much powah you lookin for Chris? How much WHP did the fastest car you've driven make?

35R with a .82 A/R will do over 550whp maxed out. Srsly, get a plane ticket to MPLS, i'll get you a ride in a car doing that....<bring a diaper> :bump:

Haha, yeah...I've ridden in some nasty cars. Probably the fastest was like 450 @ wheels though. The thing is, I don't want to be sorry when I want more. I also don't want to be regretting the lag though...

550 would be cool, but I don't really want to be making that by maxing out a 35r. Its kinda stupid to talk about numbers and say oh I want such and such a number...but I'm the kind of crazy mofo that likes to be too scared to use all the power that I have on tap.

Thats the way its always been with the boats I've experienced with my dad + his friends, etc...lol Maybe its stupid, but thats why I want someone to knock some sense into me if need be.

Maybe if I bank enough this summer I'll fetch me a ticket out there. That would be pretty cool.

Thanks for the response Jeff! We do have some talking to do because I am feeling the need to burn my (future) money lol. I think I need to chip this beast before the end of the summer. Just need a dizzy and the chip I suppose (wg spring too maybe)...and as you can see, my 3B plans are spiraling around in my head at all times haha. I think I might have a good mani, dp, ic piping, etc source in line, and the rest is really all in the IIc. Gotta start thinkin about that.

loxxrider wrote:my 3B plans are spiraling around in my head at all times

you have no idea. i'm seriously losing sleep in anticipation. i may pick my motor up 9 mos ahead of time if i can.

Unless you're planning a dyno queen or trying to win the NHRA import championship, the 35R is going to suit any need you could possibly dream of. Noone needs more than 550whp, unless you have to pass stupid F16s hanging out in the left lane of the freeway on your way home.

Sam

:stupid:

And you really need to work your way up to that kind of power. Lot's of stuff happens really fast at those power levels. On the street, that can lead to very bad things...

GT35....i got the GT30, its fast....really fun, but if u wanted 500's GT35 it up!

Haha alright guys...thanks. I guess that sways me back into thinking of (large) 35r stuff for sure. Maybe the 42 can be for the next project

See, that was all I needed...just a little :slap:

You guys can do that from time to time if you want...I need to be kept in line.

Its just that this 798rwhp skyline I experienced made me a little jealous...

http://api.photoshop.com/home_52d4241b6 ... 5b000feb01

and my cousin (more like an uncle) built a single turbo mustang that runs 8.50's in the quarter on drag radials and full interior...lol...so I do have a little bit of crazy in my blood.

Still, I suppose worrying about my drivetrain even more than I already will have to isn't so cool either. : /

All that being said, even if it was just a 2871, I'd still be super excited about it every day

friends dont let friends be ricers!!!! :bashtard:


lol! j/k

haha yeah..that is some badass rice tho!

I think when I am finished with the audi, the next thing I will do is a v8. That is where my roots are. I don't care how much power it makes...as long as its N/A and has a HUGE cam I can't get enough of that lope.

See how much I think about cars? I am a freakin car connoisseur!..../freak :-D

Hmmmmm I've been looking around at my options on turbos once again (the 35r range is decided...its just a question of what brand I want to go with)

and garrett is the safe bet for me...but I might like to try something new. Say a Holset Hx35...falls between a 35 and 40r and spools very nicely...also very easy to rebuild...and lots cheaper....

So, what say you?

holsets are great turbos...
to be honest with you i think there is a lot of hype around garrett ball bearing turbos. They are very expensive although you get what you pay for, you cannot rebuild them, and i honestly think a lot of what you pay for is the name...
holsets are great, inexpensive and obviously very reliable as they are usually on trucks with around 200k miles on them..
I would also look at some of the bullseye/ borg warner turbos. The new BW turbos with the extended tip technology are honestly incredible turbos...
For example in the SFWD class the gt42r used to RUN that class, almost EVERY car had the saaammmeee 42r, this past year almost everyone switched to BW s372s, similar in size flows over 92lbs/min and spools EQUAL to a the gt4294 that everyone was running, and it costs about half of what the garrett ball bearing equivalent is..
I would do a borg warner before a holset any day, for your application a s362 would be ideal, similar in size to a 35r, but way more room to make up to 600hp...

Hmmmmm great info! That was exactly what I was looking for. I def think I want to try something different.

The only thing is I probably wouldn't end up with a bullseye. I know a guy with an evo that made 904whp on a 42r, and the two weekends previous to that, he blew up two brand new bullseyes on the exact same setup...kinda iffy to me. Car still runs the 42r as far as I know. I have heard people with lots of luck with bullseyes though.

Anyhow, Ill definitely be looking into holsets and borg warners for sure. Thanks again for the info! :-)

anyone else feel free to chime in!

I know a few people with DSMs who have had horrible issues with Bullseye turbos. To me it wouldn't be worth the risk. The new Borg Warner/3k turbos that I have seen for the big diesels look very nice and they out-flow the Garrets by a fair bit. On the same engine the Borg Warner will make 3-4 psi more at the same rpm...

Digging the car and this project! Nice stuff

yeah the bullseyes arent as great, or the hybrid bullseyes...

My friends have had great luck with the Borg Warner turbos, they are quite inexpensive as well....