The Project Pad

Main project thread with lots of 07K info (much already known here): http://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-an ... hread.html

Because having just an Audi for a project car is not enough, this is my even more extreme project.

My Porsche craze started even before my Audi addiction (even though I owned an Audi first by a few months). Ever since I could even think about driving I wanted a Porsche 944 Turbo. Starting early in college, I started making baby steps towards that goal by purchasing an '87 924S. A year later, I traded it for a different car but I still longed for another Porsche. Not much later, I got an '80 924 Turbo for pretty cheap and did a $50 rustoleum paint job with plans for much more. Then, after saving up some more money I realized it was ready to take the big step and purchase my dream machine, an '87 944 Turbo in Alipine White. I drove 10 hrs from Indiana to Kansas in April. Funny thing, we get 2hrs from the guy's place and it starts snowing! Kansas it the beginning of April and there's 6-10" of snow falling!!!! We made it there and got the Porsche back to the highway in the snow despite having low tread on the 275' 18" summer tires (thank you LSD). It was actually my buddy in his Chevy Lumina that slid off the road and prompted us to find a hotel until the roads got better. The next day the car made it safely home. Fast forward a few months of greatly enjoying the car, the car developed a low boost problem which I figured was caused by the spider's nest of vacuum lines that plague the car. It was then that I got bit SEVERELY by the "while I'm in there bug"... I originally just planned on replacing the vacuum lines, but a deal came up for a piggyback/MAF/turbo setup so I started to tear the car apart to install that. Then I needed to do headgasket, rod bearings, oil pan gasket, etc. I was still a poor college student about to graduate so I desperately tried to throw the car back together my final weeks of school to get it back to my parent's house. That didn't happen, so I towed it there. In the mean time, I accepted an internship in Seattle so I head out here for a few months to give it a try and left everything at home. That internship developed into a full-time position, so I flew home and loaded up the truck and made the move. Finally, about 6 months after graduating I was able to start working on the car again. Jump forward another year and I got the car running and started to discover more problems that I hadn't addressed while I had it apart. I knew I wanted to pull the motor this time (something I hadn't done before) and I had the crazy idea to start looking for a 968 shell to swap everything into. My 951 shell was rebuilt at one point so it would always have that branding and I wanted to build something a bit more unique. I found one down in they bay area so I made arrangements to go get it. Long story short, I got the car but the guy screwed me out of the title. Despite my plans for it to be mainly a track car, I needed a title as I wanted to occasionally drive it on the street. A few months go buy and I got a line on another one, this time in Redding, CA. This one with a title, and a lot of the body parts I had been missing with the other shells (those are $$ and hard to find). So I picked this one up and the transaction couldn't have gone smoother. Found a buyer that wanted the old shell without a title as he was going to use it to repair his wrecked 968 cabriolet.

That brings us to today. I have the entire drivetrain out of my '87 951 and a '92 968 shell that I am building into a streetable track car.

The Car:
'92 Porsche 968 Coupe
Originally a 6spd coupe in Midnight Blue.
#29/2,234 for 1992
2nd Midnight Blue coupe built for North America, and the 1st Midnight Blue coupe with cashmere interior

The Mods:
Engine/Drivetrain
-2.5L 8V 944 Turbo Engine that's been completely resealed
-T04E 60 trim/KKK#8 Stage 3 wheel Turbo
-40mm JGS Wastegate
-Wolf 3D V4+ Standalone EMS with J&S Safeguard Knock Detection
-J&S wideband/knock gauge
-AEM UEGO wideband
-RC 1000cc injectors
-3bar FPR
-TBD clutch and flywheel
-Greddy Type S BOV
-Speed Force Racing 2.5" IC pipes
-Custom FMIC
-K.I.S.S auxilary oil cooler
-Griffin aluminum radiator
-Custom cam and upgraded valve springs
-Port matched head and intake manifold
-Custom bored throttle body
-Custom Engineered Performance semi-solid engine mounts
-Custom Engineered Performance AC delete bracket
-J Wood custom battery cables
-S.S. Lindsey Racing fuel lines
-Bosch 044 fuel pump
-Speed Force Racing 3" testpipe and catback
-944 S2 LSD 5spd transmission (AOT code 016)

Chassis/Suspension/Wheels
-Tarrett Engineering fully adjustable front and rear sway bars
-968 caster blocks
-TBD bushings and rear suspension goodies with torsion bar delete
-TBD custom coilovers front and rear
-18x8.5/18x10 CupII replica wheels (street)
-18x10 (4) TR Motorsport F2 forged wheels (track)
-Cayenne Brembo 18Z Calipers with custom brackets and TBD rotors
-S.S. brake lines

Body
-Fully gutted and stripped chassis painted Continental Orange throughout (or possibly blood orange)
-968 Turbo RS replica adjustable spoiler
-Manual sunroof latches
-968 mirrors and door handles
-Billet visor clips
-Gutted stock dash
-Custom RS-style door panels
-Custom chassis wiring harness
-TBD aftermarket heater box
-TBD seats and harnesses

I'm sure I'm missing a few things, the parts pile is too large...
-6pt Autopower bolt-in roll cage

Inspiration (car will be painted either Blood Orange or Continental Orange, this is Blood Orange):


The voyage from Redding back to Seattle:


In the garage:


951 engine that will be going in:


What's left of my precious 951:


NASTY carpet glue and sound deadening (I don't know how it's still sticky after 20+ years):


Getting closer...

NICE! Watching this!

There is a 928 sitting in some used car lot locally in town, been there for at least 5 years, I am so tempted to take a handful of cash down and say "lets make a deal".

I am eagerly awaiting updates. I don't know if I have ever seen a 968 in person.

Good luck!
Brendan

Hey Alex......this going to be done by BBQ4? I like the project!

I still like the original blue.

quattro87 wrote:Hey Alex......this going to be done by BBQ4? I like the project!

Hope so! It's much more likely I'll have this here than the Audi. Not sure if 19hrs one way in a stripped track car is going to fun so I'll probably trailer it...

Oh and I forgot to mention the ultimate goal a year or so down the line...07K swap! 07K is a good 6" shorter IIRC than the 2.5L and measurements seem like it will fit with ease, not to mention make much more power much cheaper. Just have to make a bellhousing adapeter and come up with a clutch/starter/slave solution (which Marc kinda already has done). I thought about doing it while I was putting the car together, but I really want to see what I can do with the Porsche lump and that means I get to drive it sooner. It's already been 3.5 years since I've driven a Porsche :(

Mainly been cleaning/blasting/powdercoating every part of the engine recently getting it ready for assembly. Haven't made much progress on bodywork. Scored an insane deal on a new blast cabinet through Boeing's surplus auction site. Got this for $300. It's 4'Wx2'Dx1.5'H working area and made up from ~$1k worth of 6061-T6 aircraft grade aluminum mounted on Bosch aluminum extrusion. Now I just need a larger oven for powdercoating even larger things!





Just a little bit bigger than my old cabinet that's sitting on my oven

Nice cabinet. LOL on the bigger oven.

LOVE the extruded aerospace frame!

quattro87 wrote:Nice cabinet. LOL on the bigger oven.

Can't complain at all about the current oven, it's a $2k lab convection oven I got for $60. Much nicer/larger than your usual kitchen oven. Interior is 23.6in (w) x 19.7in (d) x 19.7in (h) so it fits most stuff.



I've seen some made out of old fridges/freezers so I might do that down the road (when I have a larger garage) to do larger stuff like bike frames/etc.

I'll just leave this here...

By the numbers, 951 vs 07K:

07K is the same displacement, 2.5L.
07K has one more cylinder, I5 vs I4.
07K has 12 more valves, 20v DOHC vs 8v SOHC.
07K is an iron block with cast aluminum head vs all aluminum (alusil) for the Porsche.
07K can have a forged crank (early ones or TT-RS) with cast rods and crank vs the all-forged (crank/rods/pistons) Porsche.
07K can be had for <$500 for a complete engine with <50k miles vs $1k+ and lots of miles.
07K is 6.5" shorter from bellhousing to crank pulley.
07K block is 2.5" shorter.
07K is 4" longer on the rear of the motor above the bellhousing due to the timing chain/etc.
07K has VVT on the intake came vs one cam with none.
07K can rev to 8500rpm stock where the 951 doesn't live long at 7000rpm.
07K weighs ~20-30lbs lighter overall with turbo/manifolds/clutch/etc.
07K can make 400whp on stock everything (including cast crank/pistons/rods) vs about the same on the 951 engine (at higher boost and higher octane fuel on the 951).
07K cylinder head flows 230cfm (x5 cyl) stock vs 180cfm (x4 cyl) stock on the Porsche.
A plug-n-play standalone ECU will soon be available for the 07K harness where nothing of the sort is available for the 951 (and the 951 suffers from a 25 year old fragile degrading harness). It'll cost about the same as a MAF kit for a 951.

Sure there are some expenses to get the 07K into a 924/944/968, but that can be made up by selling the 951 engine. The rest of the upgrade costs in either build are a wash. The 07K is cheaper vs Porsche, but you have to buy 5 instead of 4.

Good idea! That will be a pretty unique setup at least for a while haha. I also can appreciate the purist hate factor, and that makes it an even better idea. What did you end up doing with the 951 panels?

Toph wrote:Good idea! That will be a pretty unique setup at least for a while haha. I also can appreciate the purist hate factor, and that makes it an even better idea. What did you end up doing with the 951 panels?

All the 911 guys think the 944's are VW/Audi anyways. I'm thinking a Porsche CNC milled valve cover (like Sean's Audi one) will make them even angrier
I sold the 951 parts worth anything (bumper/fenders/valence) and then scrapped the body at $0.09/lb. Couldn't give the shell away so I made $42 off it.

Nice! good job going for the far more interesting swap option.

Also, i'm going to call you next time i need to blast something large hahaha

Teaser, more coming tomorrow...
If only Audi's had this much room to play with

Had some free time after work yesterday so I threw the engine on a hoist and set it in the bay. It's just the engine sitting on top of the crossmember/steering rack with the stock oil pan. So yes, it is sitting a little tall and it's sitting straight up. Audi tilted there engines something like 10-12* so I might do that, we'll see. The Iroz Audi mounts do this.

Sitting on top of the rack, plenty of clearance for the steering shaft on the side:


Lots of room for manifolds! The C2 manifold still probably wouldn't work, or at least you wouldn't have much room for a downpipe. I'll probably have the manifold come forward and place the turbo in front of the strut tower. Depends on the how much room I have for the downpipe which will probably be 3-3.5"


The crossmember/steering rack sit quite a bit more forward than the Audi application so the Iroz oil pan might not work, or might need modified. I'm afraid the sump might be right where the steering rack is. The engine might end up coming a little further forward though, I won't be sure until I get the torque tube and bellhousing back in the car.



As you can see, you drop the engine a lot with the modified pan:
Stock:

Iroz Pan:


Depending on the sump clearance, it might be an option to modify the pan and drop the subframe a bit (and line-bore new control arm mounts). Hopefully it doesn't come to that option. A manual steering rack will gain me a little bit of room too.

Some other good new, the chain housing clears the brake booster with no problems. Even more clearance when you til the engine and drop it lower.



And lastly, TONS of room up front! Enought for a nice thick radiator with fan/cowling and FMIC with even more room in the nose for oil cooler/etc.

Perhaps it's not worth the trouble but can you move the rack in front of the engine? The more that I look at it, I guess it would require tubing the front

Mcstiff wrote:Perhaps it's not worth the trouble but can you move the rack in front of the engine? The more that I look at it, I guess it would require tubing the front

That is a thought I've had, not sure if the angles would work. I'll try it if it gets to that point. Hank said we can do a custom pan so we'll see if both the x-member and steering rack clear once I get better dimensions. I need to get the bellhousing figured out and then mount up the torque tube so I can then see exactly where the engine needs to sit.

I just wanted to say this is a badass swap. Carry on.

Ugh, that rack is right where the pickup would go in the longitudinal pan. Looks like a custom pan will be necessary, you could start by pulling the pan and see if there is room without modifying the rack and subframe. Perhaps a 'powered by porsche' custom intake to really piss some people off hahaha...keep it up, I like where this is going.

Toph wrote:Ugh, that rack is right where the pickup would go in the longitudinal pan. Looks like a custom pan will be necessary, you could start by pulling the pan and see if there is room without modifying the rack and subframe. Perhaps a 'powered by porsche' custom intake to really piss some people off hahaha...keep it up, I like where this is going.

Definitely going to do "PORSCHE" in the valve cover


Or I could do "PORSCHE 20V" like the 928 Intake

speaking of torque tube- what are you doing by way of flywheel/clutch/adapter plate?

the german wrote:speaking of torque tube- what are you doing by way of flywheel/clutch/adapter plate?

Going to follow this approach and hack up a FWD transmission for a bellhousing: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche- ... are-2.html

02A trans case vs 944 bellhousing:


Starter might be a bitch since it'll get put placed on the side/top of motor compared to the bottom that the 944 setup has. This would provide the easiest flywheel/clutch setup.

The other option is to hack the crap out of the 944 bellhousing (the top is way too tall) and make an adapter plate. But then I have to worry about the starter/flywheel. Marc has done it with a 1.8T so it's possible.

Well I just found this:
http://forums.tipec.net/viewtopic.php?f ... ddcc421ba7

Torque tube adapter:


Starter had to be mounted upside down:


And it still didn't clear and the tunnel had to be widened 1.5"


I might be better off trying to find a 931 bellhousing and modifying that.