The Project Pad

sweet, thanks for the advice on spring rates. Its hard to get an opinion on what to use. Maybe just 600's all around or something. I dunno

Whenever I get my suspension setup all sorted out and installed properly I think we need to post a sticky about suspension setups.

What about Shine Racing?

But yes, there's a reason why I run stiffer springs in the back of my CQ.

http://cuatrokoop.audi-quattro.org/Over-Under.htm

I compiled that list from some auto-x guys a few years ago.

Sooo do those "coilover kits" come with tops, coilover nuts, and sleeves?

That spring site is awesome but I was thinking I need 6" springs...maybe an 8" spring since I can set them up however I like. Then I can choose my spring rates no problem.

the A1 racing place, you have to piece it together.

you need this sleve I believe for the front: $19
http://shop.a1racing.com/cok12452-h.aspx

then you find the lower perch that works with the sleeve: $13
http://shop.a1racing.com/cok12460.aspx

then you need a hat, which I'm not sure which is correct, measure the top of your strut insert shaft and find the right one, I personally would go for non-slotted, it just seems safer.

measure the body of your rear shock and find the sleeve you need... and the correct perch and hat.

As for the springs, I would go with 8" I think 6" would be too short, my lowring springs are about that tall when compressed, plus you will have nearly 5" of adjustment once you get the sleeve on there.

Word. This is awesomeness. I could get all 4 springs for ~$60 and then have ~$200 in the coilover parts. (I think non-slotted is a much better idea as well) then I have to get shocks and struts, but thats fine.

If anyone has measurements on strut housing thickness and shock shaft, let me know. I am soooo busy this week. I'll jack it up and measure when I get a chance though.

I also just realized that the rears are not inserts :slap:

so when you go to fit these, in the front they are just welded on the strut housing (possibly with shortening of housing required), and in the rear, is the shock body tapered so the sleeve can just rest on it? or does it require welding to the shock body (doesn't seem very safe).

I feel like an idiot, but its hard to figure it out without the parts sitting in front of me and thats hard to do because I cant have my car down and out right now, and I dont have the time. Its never easy ordering stuff before you have it all torn apart first to see exactly what you need to do.

loxxrider wrote:Word. This is awesomeness. I could get all 4 springs for ~$60 and then have ~$200 in the coilover parts. (I think non-slotted is a much better idea as well) then I have to get shocks and struts, but thats fine.

If anyone has measurements on strut housing thickness and shock shaft, let me know. I am soooo busy this week. I'll jack it up and measure when I get a chance though.

Where are you getting 15 dollar springs? Theyre usually more like 50-60 each

pairs for $40 and $30 unless I'm totally retarded

http://www.racewerx.com/springs.htm

cuatrokoop wrote:What about Shine Racing?

But yes, there's a reason why I run stiffer springs in the back of my CQ.

http://cuatrokoop.audi-quattro.org/Over-Under.htm

I compiled that list from some auto-x guys a few years ago.

Whoops sorry, didn't even see what you said amongst all of the other talking.

I haven't looked at shine racing yet for this car. I'll have to take a look. This A1 stuff looks great for the price though...

*edit* shine doesnt seem to have anything listed on their site other than kits for MKIV's and such

I have a local friend that will sell me a set for $100...k=525

still not sure what I want in that respect. I was thinking between 500 and 700. Again, I'm not concerned with a harsh ride

**maybe 550 or 525 in front and 700 in the rear?

OK, seems like the fronts are pretty good to go as far as what i need (if the info you gave me is right -Justin-)

now for the rears...I have the measurements of the Koni race strut inserts...it looks like the OD on them is 1.71"

Doesn't seem right. The sleeves on A-1 seem to be 1-7/8, 1-5/8, or 2" (or 2.170" for strut housings). What is the diameter of the strut insert required for T44?

Also, I was kinda wondering how the sleeves are attached to the strut bodies. Does is just require very careful/slow welding or something?

W00t I'm corresponding with racewerx about some springs right now. Pretty excited to get 'em fo cheap...and bump for my other question so I can get the ball rolling here

Can anyone verify stock strut housing diameter?

I measured just under the bottom spring perch and got about 2.185"

the A1 sleeves listed above say they have an ID of 2.170".

Maybe I didn't center my vernier calipers properly or something.

also wondering how the strut inserts are held into the strut housings and how that would work with the collars on there. I really just need a visual.

the rears arent inserts, the shock has a groove machined in it and a perch/sleeve that slides over it and rests on a snap ring that is in that groove.

you can trim the stock perch and use it as a base for the sleeve, which is usually held in place from twisting with set screws.

as for the front housing diameter .015" isnt much like a third of a mm, a quick cleanup wuth a flap wheel should take care of that,a nd you would get a nice "press" fit.

the insert slips in the housing, the sleeve slips over the housing down below the threads, then the threaded cap goes ont he top of the strut retaining the insert in the tube, get the sleeve as close as possible to the cap but I wouldnt mak it so the cap puts pressure on the sleeve because then it might not be tight enough to keep the insert where it is... unless you measure VERY VERY well.

also... I would go with under 600# front and rear, I think my H&Rs are right around the 300# mark and its pretty stiff and it causes some rattles and stuff, double that would get annoying on the street, but you prob have better roads in FLA, huh?

When I was thinking about doing it I was going to try to look for 450-500# fronts and 500-600# rears... much more than that wouldnt be good for off the shelf bilsteins, even those #s would probably shorten their lives.



EDIT:

the springs in my car are 175 front and 220 rear, and they are a vast improvement over stock, the bilsteins prob add to that quite abit.

OK, thanks for the info. The way it all works is pretty darn clear to me now. You have been a HUGE help.

I sent another e-mail out requesting 500 and 650 to see if they can do that.

FL roads are definitely pretty good. Its pretty much smooth riding everywhere.

I'm still not sure on what struts will be used. The Koni race struts seem like a good option especially since they are double adjustable. I am just trying to figure out the OD of various shocks so that I can get the correct ID for a rear sleeve.

loxxrider wrote:OK, thanks for the info. The way it all works is pretty darn clear to me now. You have been a HUGE help.

I sent another e-mail out requesting 500 and 650 to see if they can do that.

FL roads are definitely pretty good. Its pretty much smooth riding everywhere.

I'm still not sure on what struts will be used. The Koni race struts seem like a good option especially since they are double adjustable. I am just trying to figure out the OD of various shocks so that I can get the correct ID for a rear sleeve.

My bilsteins are the same diam as the stockers, not sue about koni though.

you are going to need to upgrade before you put this all together anyway, so I would get the struts you want and work from there.

You can prob just buy a custom valved shock, I know with bilstein you can get a rebuild+re-valve for like $65-$75 each
http://www.bilsteinus.com/services.php

maybe try to find a set of used ones for cheap, even if theyre blown and have them revalved/rebuilt just how you want them... figuring out how you want them though... that may be a bit more involved. Maybe you can corner weigh the car... or atleast front/rear weigh and tell them the spring rate you will run and they can suggest something...?

Justin517 wrote:

loxxrider wrote:OK, thanks for the info. The way it all works is pretty darn clear to me now. You have been a HUGE help.

I sent another e-mail out requesting 500 and 650 to see if they can do that.

FL roads are definitely pretty good. Its pretty much smooth riding everywhere.

I'm still not sure on what struts will be used. The Koni race struts seem like a good option especially since they are double adjustable. I am just trying to figure out the OD of various shocks so that I can get the correct ID for a rear sleeve.

My bilsteins are the same diam as the stockers, not sue about koni though.

you are going to need to upgrade before you put this all together anyway, so I would get the struts you want and work from there.

You can prob just buy a custom valved shock, I know with bilstein you can get a rebuild+re-valve for like $65-$75 each
http://www.bilsteinus.com/services.php

maybe try to find a set of used ones for cheap, even if theyre blown and have them revalved/rebuilt just how you want them... figuring out how you want them though... that may be a bit more involved. Maybe you can corner weigh the car... or atleast front/rear weigh and tell them the spring rate you will run and they can suggest something...?

right, I'm just trying to figure out what the specs are of various struts.

The A-1 sleeves come in 1-5/8, 1-7/8 and 2" versions (they would fit shock bodies with those O.D.s respectively).

So I just want to find shocks that have those O.D.s

seems like pulling teeth to get those specs

am I correct to assume that a shorter strut body (for the rear) would put that snap ring further down with respect to where the stock one would be? Thats what I'm looking for because otherwise it seems like there isn't a way to go much lower than stock with lowering springs.

What are stock spring lengths BTW? Just out of curiosity.

Just got your pm, like justin said, go with the 2.17" ID A1 sleeves, the same ones i have. Stock housing diameter is just over 2", I think IIRC when i measured at my friends place with his digital caliper it was like 2.08 or something like that.
500 front 650 rear sounds perfect for what your looking to do, get 6" springs though for sure. 7" are to long and maxed out low on coilovers i dont think you will be as low as you want, because i know how low you want to go :-)
There is plenty of travel in the rear to go with a 6" spring and maxed out on that you will be low..Trust me i was tucking rim on 16s in the back and still had 1.5 inches of travel left probably. A set of bilstiens or konis for the back, trim off the spring perch and you can rest your sleeve right over it.

OK its getting down to the wire here.

6" and 450 and 550 are what I think the springs are going to end up being. Too bad they are nearly impossible to get other than brand new in those specs...about $67 a piece.

I need to figure out shocks now. For the rears I need 46mm body to fit the sleeves I would like to purchase. The koni race ones that I have specs for are 45.5mm...close enough? ID on the sleeves is 1.980. Seems like whatever gap might be there would be easy to weld.

And for the fronts, I have no idea what the insert diameter is supposed to be...but I figure Koni or Bilstein would know if I called them up and gave them the application.

The final thing I'd like to know is length. Koni races have a max length of 520mm and min length of 380. Seems like this is a good option...but is that true for both front and rear?

I'd like to find something similar in bilstein form also just to compare. If you have any info please share!!!

Well its going to be a few weeks until I have my VEMS box back. Somehow it died while being tested. Anyway, looks like its going to be replaced with a new box. Thats 3 now! lol

Posted this in the T44 strut insert thread, but am putting it here for my records and also for maybe some more views and possible help...


I just put in an order for Eibach to make me some 450 and 550 k 6" L, 2.5"id springs.

I also have all of the coilover parts lined up that I need. Sleeves, hats, and perches for front and back. The back sleeves call for a 46mm od shock body and from the spec sheet posted above, koni offers the race strut in a 45.5mm od. I called Koni and they said that that is definitely fine for use with the sleeves that call for a 46mm od shock body.

Now the only question I have is which ones from the PDF above will work in the front strut housings...aka what diameter to get and with what length.

also, what to use for the rear struts. I need the 45.5mm, but also with the mounting points. Tardbashing


of course if you have suggestions from another manufacturer feel free to add them.

noone?

Just use koni or bilstein shocks that are made for a 1991 200 20v.

dont mess with what works. Koni's are a lil under $700 and Bilsteins are around $500 on shox.com.

order the strut insters and rear shocks first.

you already know what sleeves to use in the front, the housing wont change.

measure the rear shock body to confirm what diameter it is so you know what sleeves to get.

measure the rod/thread diameter so you knwo what size hats to get.

order your sleeves/perches/hats.


I'm not sure what you are trying to change/do here it seems like you are making it alot more difficult than it needs to be.