Justin's '85 UrQ'd 4000 20vt Project - Tuning Help?

AudiSport4000 · Post by **AudiSport4000** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:59 pm

Also, can you give me info on that breaker, where did you find it, how much, and how to install it? Looks like something my car really needs...

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:17 am

a4kquattro wrote:ah, much better

I never got a decent explaination till I posted up on AW and now your post. Then it made complete sense... in reality, it's probably OK, but in an accident or if something stupid happens, it's a better solution. So yeah, All squared away. Pix of your jumper studs on the 4ktq sparked my interest for the power posts (so thank you!). The wood chocks in the battery box plus the H-bar will keep the battery from sliding into the screws I put through it... and once I put the techflex on the power line going into the cabin of the car you'll hardly even notice the wiring. I was gonna tuck the power line behind the foam liner, but I didn't like how it was routing over the gas tank filler, and wanted to make sure it didn't get pinched in the trunk hinge... no need to be testing out the circuit breaker

AudiSport4000 wrote:Also, can you give me info on that breaker, where did you find it, how much, and how to install it? Looks like something my car really needs...

It's a 200A breaker used for car stereo systems. I actually picked it up from ebay for like $7? Either it was a mispost, or the seller thought they'd get a bidding frenzy over it. Listed at 99 cents with $6 shipping or something like that. Javad has one on the 034 site to give you an idea of specs... this obviously isn't as nice as the one he offers, but it does the trick for sure. They're all over ebay, so I'm sure you can find one for sub $20 if you were patient. I just happened to find this, so I really lucked out.

As for installation, it's pretty cut and dry. I have 2 screws w/ washers and nuts holding it to the battery box. Then one post is labeled "BATT" and the other "AUX"... wire accordingly. cut the power line to the appropriate length, soldered and hammered the end on, do the same for the line going to the engine bay... and that's all she wrote.

After realizing I'm a little further along than I thought I was, I def got real excited again. Too bad I didn't think of ordering the techflex earlier in the week so I had it for this weekend :( It'll be waiting on my doorstep early next week when I get home from class, so it's not all bad. I was thinking of picking up the regular split loom stuff, but its too cheap looking for me... haha. Though it'll be out of site, out of mind... I'd still like it to look nice if anyone would tear into the car.

WAUG0806 · Post by **WAUG0806** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:32 am

Justin,

I'm re-mounting the ECU on my car, and am going to try making the board from one of those dense polyethelene cutting boards, to replace the "swanson factory" wood...

we have bad termites here in MD

cuatrokoop · Post by **cuatrokoop** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:38 pm

AudiSport4000 wrote:Also, can you give me info on that breaker, where did you find it, how much, and how to install it? Looks like something my car really needs...

Try waytekwire.com, or NewarkInOne, or Allied Electric. They should all have all sorts of wiring goodies from wire to terminal connectors to terminal strips to 10A-200A solenoids to 10A-200A breakers.

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:19 am

WAUG0806 wrote:Justin,

I'm re-mounting the ECU on my car, and am going to try making the board from one of those dense polyethelene cutting boards, to replace the "swanson factory" wood...

we have bad termites here in MD

hey, tha'ts a pretty good idea doug. I might look into that some more. Only concern I have is the thickness, since the rubber isolators thread into the ecu, i'm gonna have to toss a nut on the back so I can install it... I didn't even THINK of doing wood though... but we def have the same termite issue down here if not worse

Oh, and thankfully I'm able to pick up the harness/plug for the fuel sender and gauge that I picked up from you... unfortunately, the harness is $25 :frustrated:

Oh well, we'll see if its worth installing or not. If I'm gonna do it, I need to do it now while the car is apart... haha. Now I know why you didn't wanna cut it out... I thought it was just a plug in type of deal with self wiring or something... not a legitimate harness.

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:33 am

So I finally got into the groove and the mood to mess with the car again. I had met up with Marques (mholme here on MG) at the beginning of November to pick up a bent tie-rod assembly for the pass side, new radiator and fan to replace the one stolen, and a firewall brace.

I spent some time on the tierod assemblies because the ones on my car were seized... or so I thought. Apparently you need to knock off that little collar that is pressed inplace by the jam nut to fully release the damn tierod adjuster!!!! If I would have known THAT, I wouldn't have picked up new tierod assemblies, but live and learn I guess. I pulled both assemblies apart and wirebrushed the hell out of them and coated them with a healthy serving of antiseize so there are no issues of rusting in place down the road.

Next up I installed the firewall brace. What a PITA!!!! There is little to no room in there, and I can't even IMAGINE installing this thing w/ the motor and radiator installed... lol. I had to do a little bending of the clutch MC hard line to get it to stop binding with the brace, but I got it in...

Here's how tight it is in there:

Not a lot of room as you can see. I had a little difficulty getting the nut to engage in the cabin area of the car, but I got it! Readjusted the cyl and all *should* be good. I obviously cant mess with it right now since theres no motor to test it out

I was really shocked how much the firewall flexed w/o the brace!

Next on I finished up the wiring I had to do in the fusebox! I had to run 2 new lines to the fuel pump relay. I had to run a new power/switched power line (coming from my new fuse panel... more to come on this later on in the post) as well as a trigger wire from the 034 ECU.

All soldered up and heat shrinked. I ran these 2 wires through a techflex loom that meets up with power lines to my HKS Elec Boost Controller (gonna locate that in the lil cubby on the drivers side kick panel), switched 12v line (from the #15 pin on the ignition switch) as well as my tach line. These wires are now run behind the heater box to the pass side where they will wire into my new fuse/relay panel and 034 ECU. I currently have it just sitting behind the box, but I'm thinking I'm gonna pull them back through and run it behind the rug/rug pad cuz I can just see that stupid loom rattling against the heater box when driving down the road!

I really lucked out with the aluminum plate. I was planning on buying some, but a fellow co-worker informed me that we have scrap bins around work that have all sorts of this stuff just sitting there ready to get scrapped/recycled. I took a look and found a sheet that was PERFECT for the application. I even have some leftover to use as a heat sheild for my pass side motor mount... bonus! If not, I can go down and snag a lil more...

Here is the panel fully installed:

Now with the wiring, I wanted to relay a power wire directly from the battery post I have located in the engine bay. The catch was, I wasn't entirely sure WHERE to mount my relay. Well, with a lil looking around under the dash, a relay panel I pulled from the parts 200, and my trusty dremel tool I came up with this:

This relay panel will be located under/behind my ECU AL mounting plate. I have installed rubber grommets so the wires don't get chaffed, and will run the ground wire up and through here as well for the ECU/Fuse panel from the ground post in the engine bay. Should look pretty slick once I'm done.

I'm gonna spend some more time mounting it up tonight... then I won't be doing much again until after the 11th since I have my Final in managerial accounting for grad school... blah. Thankfully though, I'll have 5 weeks off after that! So with any luck (and if all my parts come in) I'll be able to finish this swap up by the time I start classes back up on the 22nd of jan.

That is it from me! Hope ya enjoyed the show... and until next time

Post by **Marc** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:52 am

nice, the audi parts bin is a great place to snag wiring parts like those relay bridges, used exactly the same thing on the 4ktq. keep up the good work :thumbsup:

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:58 am

thanks marc! Thankfully that audi parts bin is slooooowly starting to dwindle down. I can almost walk around my garage now w/o tripping over a random box or getting snagged by a part sticking out of the box

GTIVR62801 · Post by **GTIVR62801** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:13 am

As I said on AW, great progress man! Can't wait to see it on the track. 8)

audifreakjim · Post by **audifreakjim** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:20 am

:stupid: :woowoo:

AudiSport4000 · Post by **AudiSport4000** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:05 pm

Always excellent pictures and descriptions. Nathan helped me with my firewall brace install, as he had done one on an Urq. We had trouble too, plus we installed it way after the swap was complete, so there was alot of stuff in the way

mholme · Post by **mholme** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:42 pm

Jretal wrote:Next up I installed the firewall brace. What a PITA!!!! There is little to no room in there, and I can't even IMAGINE installing this thing w/ the motor and radiator installed... lol. I had to do a little bending of the clutch MC hard line to get it to stop binding with the brace, but I got it in...

I warned you...

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:56 pm

mholme wrote:I warned you...

lol... that you did my man, that you did. BUT, I was able to get it in w/ only one bloody knuckle... and that was from trying to tighten down the nuts on teh INSIDE of the car :wtf:

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:27 am

So I spent some quality time last week working on the wiring some more on the 4000.

Got the wire loom from the dash nicely tucked behind the floor padding so it can't rattle around anywhere:

From that point, I got the relay panel all wired up properly, soldered and installed securely so it it's not gonna BUDGE!

Then I hardwired the new fuse panel and got things hooked up accordingly. 034 ECU officially has power (once it gets a fuse), as does the plug for the EBC, and so does the fuel pump relay!

I then spent some time figuring out the hall sender plug after getting no response from anyone here unfortunately (if one of the 034 guys or hall sender savy guys would please look at this post, I'd really appreciate it to make sure I wired it correctly: http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13256).

I kept the plug from the old 4000 harness and from the bentley manual for the 4000 and the one from the 200 (to help decipher the remaining wires left on the 034 harness left over from the parts car) I was able to tell which clip went where. Unfortunately, I didn't like how old and nasty the wires looked... sooooo, I picked out the shielded wire that came with the 034 kit and rewired the terminals!

Lil bit of a PITA, but overall MUCH worth it... gives a very clean look once the rubber booty is installed:

So at this point I just have to wire in the coil wire and solder up the wires to the Hall sender and I'm DONE wiring...

Now I can start playing with this stuff:

Joe @ AXIS MOTORSPORTS hooked me up with parts, and got them to me in 2 DAYS!!! Can't shake a stick at that kinda service. He beat out EVERY SINGLE PRICE I sent to him from competing parts suppliers, and overall was still cheaper even including shipping. Joe and I will DEF be doing business down the road... I can't say enough good things about him for sure.

What this lil shippment entailed was: Heater core, lifters, head gasket (special metal 20vt one so it'll handle the crazy boost i'm gonna toss at this motor eventually

), thermostat, flywheel bolts, timing belt pully, tranny mounts, and not seen: A4 tierod end since the ones on my car are shot.

This should be a fun week! I finished off my final monday night, so I'm free for the next 5 weeks... by the end of jan... this car is GONNA be on the road dammit! haha.

hope ya enjoyed the show, there will be more updates down the road

AudiSport4000 · Post by **AudiSport4000** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:09 pm

I lub the 20vt headgasket

. Enjoy, those are some tasty parts.

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:33 pm

How much did the 20vt gasket run you?

Sam

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:35 pm

SeStone wrote:How much did the 20vt gasket run you?

Sam

I think Joe got it to me for $45 and change maybe? can't remember, but it was less than the $46 that taylor automotive quoted me. Shoot him an email and see what he can do for ya.

quattrofrog · Post by **quattrofrog** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:38 pm

I'd opt for a BEHR thermostat over the Wahler.

SEStone · Post by **SEStone** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:06 am

Jretal wrote:
SeStone wrote:How much did the 20vt gasket run you?

Sam

I think Joe got it to me for $45 and change maybe? can't remember, but it was less than the $46 that taylor automotive quoted me. Shoot him an email and see what he can do for ya.

That's an awesome price! I'll have to do that! Thanks!

Sam

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:26 am

quattrofrog wrote:I'd opt for a BEHR thermostat over the Wahler.

any reason for this phil? quality issue or what? Just curious as I'm not overly familiar. If it fails, it's at least easier to get to and fix than the 12v

SeStone wrote:That's an awesome price! I'll have to do that! Thanks!

NP buddy... def talk with Joe about anything ya need, he'll hook ya up

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:58 am

More updates, cuz I'm crazy motivated to work on this car right now!!!

So everything ECU-wise is wired and ready to go. Ignition Coil is soldered in and connected to the fuse panel, hall sender soldered in, Wideband O2 business is run and wired AND mounted to the board, wires for the elec boost controller are run to where they need to be and yeah... wiring = DONE

Next thing on the board was to get this puppy on its own 4 wheels again, because I needed to roll it out of the garage some and clean up the engine bay before I think about dropping the motor in (my dad was giving me too much $hit about the dirty engine bay so I had to do SOMETHING about it :roll:

)... so on went the wheels and I did a real crude alignment (eyeballed it) so that it didn't have 20* of toe out (I'm not kidding) on both wheels.

While the car was up in the air as well, I decided it was time to yank the exhaust

I'm going full 3" header back exhaust, so there's no point in keeping it around (anyone need a good stock 4000 cat or muffler???). Pulled that stuff and stashed it away so no one tries to get sticky fingers again.

With the car on 4 wheels again I rolled her out of the garage and gave her a lil spray down:

and after a hose down w/ a lil palmolive and brush:

I'm actually rather impressed with how good the paint is on this part of the car. It was muddy/dusty as hell but cleaned up nicely.

Next on the list, as I let the engine bay air dry a little bit (which was not so easy cuz it's so cool and humid down here right now), was to do the head coolant port mod. I was kinda scared about doing this honestly, cuz I was worried about f'in up the head I dropped so much time, effort and $$ to get it where it's at right now... but I figured, I'm gonna be pushing this motor pretty hard during its life, so I might as well do everything I can now while it's apart rather than have to redo it down the road.

Here's the head ready to go:

I'm using a 1/8" NPT threaded 3/8" hose barb (i think it's 3/8" at least). While not the biggest passage in the world, it will provide enough flow to do what it needs to do I think. Also, any bigger of a hole and I think I might come too close for comfort to the oil passageways that are millimeters from this passageway

Here's a pic of where it comes out on the left most boss that you tap into for this mod:

There were really no documented photos of this, so I figured I'd give it a whirl so those of you that DO go for this mod know what you're looking for. I drilled a 3/8" hole all the way through, but ran 2 pilot holes first. Basically worked it up to the 3/8" bit... then tapped the hole:

And here is the finished product:

Wasn't too difficult of a thing to do... just had a lil bit of a pucker factor drilling into the head. I was really tempted not to do it b/c I was worried about f'ing up the head, but all went smoothly, so now I just need to figure out which cam to put in and I'm golden!

From this point, I installed the tmiing belt idler pulley...

Big issue I ran into with this is the original bolt I got from the parts car is WAY too long (like 1/4" or so) and it's binding... anyone know what the proper length is suppose to be with these? Any special grade of bolt I need to get?

From there I installed my oil pressure sensor for the autometer gauges I picked up from Doug (WAUG0806), and also the bung for my mechanical oil pressure gauge. I'm going to run both... only the mechanical one will live in the engine bay on a custom AL plate so I can see it when playing in the engine. Is it necessary? not one bit... but I needed something to plug the hole, and I tossed the rest of the OEM sensors I had laying around

From this point, I took off all the AL stuff off the engine (motor mounts, alternator bracket, heat shield for oil filter housing, etc) and am going to sandblast it this afternoon at work. I was oging to just leave them, but after looking at it... I want 'em powdercoated! So powdercoated they shall be... RED! And I'm going to clean up the IM as well since it has a large amount of AL shavings from drilling and tapping for the GM air temp sensor. Thankfully, this IM has already been worked over (I'm assuming Rob did this?) so I don't need to do ANY porting or polishing of it... I was real happy about that. Thinking of having it powdercoated as well, but in a gunmetal color. We'll see how crazy I feel though.

So that's about it for now. Once I get all this stuff sandblasted I just need to install the crank bolt/pulley, put the motor at TDC, install the head and time the thing... and its ready to go in once I get all my powdercoated stuff!

Also, another change in plans for the clutch setup. I'm going to have southbend build me a clutch setup for the car. Shooting for the OFE stage 3 clutch. Not decided on whether I'll run the HD or SS Pressure plate though... we'll see how the #s work out.

until next time!

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:21 pm

Well, I figured it's about time I tossed out an update on the progress of the car. I have been working diligently to get the wiring, gauges, and car itself ready to accept the motor.

Right before christmas, this is what the motor looked like:

Since I was out of town over the holidays, not much got done. Once I got back in town, I realized it was about time to start reassembling the interior of the car so that I could finish up the wiring and get the ball rolling on gauge installation, etc etc.

First I prepped the engine bay for the motor... and of course, the only thing I could do there was install the motor mounts:

I decided to go with the mustang poly tranny mounts... and I went with red so it'd match the rest of the motor pieces

I then moved to the interior and got the dash installed:

From there, I needed to figure out how to mount my 3 autometer gauges (boost gauge, fuel pressure gauge, oil pressure gauge) and get them wired in... I was initially planning on mounting the gauges down by the ash tray, but I realized I'd really like to keep these things w/in eyes shot. So, only place I could figure that looked good, and I could integrate the gauges so it looks really slick is to stick them in the center vent gauge.

So I made up a wooden mount:

And cut the holes and got the gauges mounted, as well as an orange LED light I'm going to use for the warning light to my Saab APC I'm soon to install:

In order to make room for the gauges so I can set them back into the dash, I had to pull the center vent ducting... I think I'm just going to cap off the ports that come out of the heater box... probably pick up a couple PVC caps and stick 'em on there

vent ducting removed:

and the gauges installed:

Now, if you look above the gauges on the dash you'll notice a square piece w/ brown paper on it... that's smoked plexi glass. The game plan is to cover that hole with plexi glass so you won't quite notice the gauges until the car is on and they're lit up... granted, the smoked plexi isn't totally blacked out... but if I need it darker, I might swing by the local tint shop and see if I can have some scrap and make it a tad bit darker.

From that point, I wired up and made a harness for the fuel pressure regulator. I snagged the GM TPS plug from the TPS I had laying around my garage and wired it in... kinda nice having the parts laying around and not having to go out any buy it

the harness run and waiting for me to install and mount the adjustable FPR:

From there I started work on mounting my EGT. Info on that can be found in this post as to why I chose this location: http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13751

Unfortunately the bolt that was in the hole sheered off, so I had to drill it out. At first I drilled a hole and tried to heat it up and use an EZ out to get it out...

needless to say, it didn't BUDGE. I probably didn't get it hot enough, but what have you... ended up drilling it the rest of the way out and tapped it w/ my 1/8 NPT tap...

Coated the thing with a healthy amount of antiseize so it'll come out nice and easy if I so desire... and in it went:

Then I got the turbo ready to mount up... I picked up a set of norlock washers from a guy on Audiworld to hold the nuts in place...

and the turbo installed onto the exhaust manifold and ready to get mounted to the head...

And to make life better, I got a special delivery today from Javad (though I bought it through Joe @ Axis)... I guess you could classify this as a Stage 2+? Consists of the SPEC flywheel and a stock Sachs pressure plate... also for a little added bling in the engine bay I picked up the 034 fuel pressure gauge

COuldn't help myself!

From here, I'm just waiting on my package of parts that Haydn (Timmmy) was so kind as to powdercoat for me... he cut me a killer deal, and from what I saw from the pictures, did an amazing job. Hopefully the box will be showing up by friday... once that comes in, the game plan for this weekend is to get the clutch installed and the motor installed in the car!

I have a boat load of parts slowly filing in this week and next to help with the motor install... got a muffler on its way, and am trying to decide if I'm going to go with my original concept of doing a dual exhaust on the car... gonna do some photoshopping and see how it comes out.

So with any luck, I will have a car that can start this weekend :woowoo: Here's hoping!

hope ya enjoyed the show... more updates after the weekend most likely.

AudiSport4000 · Post by **AudiSport4000** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:53 pm

Woohooooo. God I love seeing pictures of the progress, brings back alot of memories

SteveAngry · Post by **SteveAngry** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:29 pm

Looking good Justin!

Who did the turbo lines and how much did you pay?

Steve

jretal · Post by **jretal** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:35 am

AudiSport4000 wrote:Woohooooo. God I love seeing pictures of the progress, brings back alot of memories

Glad I can provide some amusement

It's def fun looking through the 300+ pix I have of this conversion and seeing how this all took shape... gotta love digi cams !!! Really can't wait to hear this thing roar to life though... took all the remainder of the stuff out of the attic last weekend so now its just a matter of assembling it all.

SteveAngry wrote:Looking good Justin!

Who did the turbo lines and how much did you pay?

Thanks Steve! Turbo lines came with the turbo, which came with the donor car. I believe they are from the 034 oil/cooling line kit that Javad sells... only the oil return line is a hybrid because the oil return line offered with the kit is designed to work with their 20vt header (correct me if I'm wrong here, Javad).

I have the original line for the kit as well, but given how thick it is, I don't think it is flexible enough to run the short span on this exhaust mani.

Just need to pick up 5 more bolts from the hardware store this afternoon and I can bolt everything together (once my powdercoating box comes in of course!!)... she's gettin' there 8)