Justin's '85 UrQ'd 4000 20vt Project - Tuning Help?

[jretal]

Ok, well it's been a bit since I've updated you guys on my project... so here it goes.

As many of you know, I found the #3 piston melted on my donor motor... really sucked, and left me rather bitter about the whole project.

Well, I stepped away from the project and left it be at the end of august. I took a lil vacation from VA Beach to head to Watkins Glen to have a blast at the track... well, that didn't go down too well either BUT, I did get to meet up with Carson and strike up a killer deal on a freshly rebuilt (and unused) MC1 short block w/ 7a pan and AAN windage tray... Thanks again Carson!

I stripped the built 20vt motor of its JE pistons/rods/arp hardware and tossed 'em in a box. I pulled all the ARP studs out of the motor as well. I bagged the main stud hardware and let it be for the moment... I'm undecided as to whether I'll be selling them off or not, but for the moment they're ognna be collecting dust. I then pulled the ARP head studs and got to putting them in the new MC shortblock. I had a hard time getting them in unfortunately, but got them seated. They were def binding as they went in, and for the life of me I can't tell you why. I chased all threads with the correct tap and everything... so not really sure. But these are def not coming out! And yes, they were coated with antiseize before being installed.

here's the motor all prepped and ready to accept the head:


I took all the necessary stuff off my 4000 motor and bolted it up to the MC block... so at this point, the short block is ready to go into the car minus the clutch. I am dragging my feet buying the clutch at the moment because I don't want to be spending the $$... also, no point in spending it when I can't even use/install it yet, ya know?

Unfortunately though, over the past month I haven't really been working on the 4000. I've been concentrating all my energy on parting out this 200 so I can get it out of my driveway!! It's looking a tad bit seedy to say the least. Inorder to recoupe my $$ though, it def needed to be parted out. I've been able to sell enough stuff off the car though that I will DEF make my money back :woowoo:

Parts have gone as far west as seattle, north as conneticut and south as georgia... this 200 has def helped other 200s go on to live.

I first started out with the fenders after getting the motor pulled...


from this point, I started really tearing into the car... interior pulled apart, dash torn out, front door pulled off, front uprights torn out, tranny pulled, rear diff pulled, windows/window regulators pulled, interior trim pieces pulled, red harness pulled... you name it! This puppy is ready to move!

Here is a slightly not-up-to-date pic (windows are still in the car)


as the car sits now, there are no side windows at all, windshield is pretty much smashed and there are random things stacked on the roof of the car

Fenders and door went out to seattle (greyhound shipping is the $hit btw...), wheels are being traded for a set of borbet type T's for the 4000, uprights are being sold, rear brakes (they were 20vt rears!!!) are going to find their way onto the 4000 with some slight modifications, and other parts sold off are finding their way around the continent. Kinda sad to see the car in this condition, but at least it gave its life to preserve others

other goodies that came with the ride: 2 4point racing harnesses, 20vt brakes (as said above) with next to no miles on 'em, custom 3" downpipe/exhaust I'm gonna make fit on the 4000, 10" sub w/ 2 6x9 rockford fostgate speakers (yeah, i'm gonna give the track toy a lil bump 8) ), and a slew of other goodies.

I have a pretty crazy next 3 weeks ahead of me due to tests and such for grad school, so there will probably be little to no work done on the 4000. Game plan is to get this car out of my driveway this week if all goes well. I need to pull a few other random parts, and once they're gone... off she goes. If there's anything you might want off this puppy, lemme know!

After these tests are over though and this 200 is outta my driveway, I'm going full tilt on the 4k. Gotta pull the A/C evap core, run my battery lines, install my 200 amp breaker in the engine bay, finish rewiring the 034 Ib ECU harness, hook up the harness to the car, find/buy/install Saab APC for knock detection, buy lifters, head gasket and a few other misc pieces I need to assemble and install the engine... then she gets fired up!!! I'm sure I'm missing some things here and there, but you get the idea... I got some work ahead of me still!

Also, I made the mistake of tallying up what I've spent so far on the car :? :frustrated: Thankfully I've made some of it back selling parts from the 200... but still, damn that hurts! AND I havne't even TOUCHED the suspension yet... oh well, that's next years project... can't WAIT to get this puppy singing though!

until next time!

[AudiSport4000]

What oil pan is that? Doesnt look like a 4kq one?

Looks fun though, wish I could part a car out like that

[cuatrokoop]

7a pan

[AudiSport4000]

7a pan

:bashtard:

I guess it would help if I could read

[WAUG0806]

"rear brakes (they were 20vt rears!!!) are going to find their way onto the 4000 with some slight modifications"

I'd love more info on what/how... rear brakes on 4K look pretty wimpy...

[jretal]

"rear brakes (they were 20vt rears!!!) are going to find their way onto the 4000 with some slight modifications"

I'd love more info on what/how... rear brakes on 4K look pretty wimpy...

not exactly sure how it's going to work yet, Doug... but I've heard its feasible. Might require custom spacers or something to get 'em to mount right, but regardless... def saved me $150+ on getting the calipers, rotors and pads!!! Hell, I think these rear calipers/rotors are bigger than the stock fronts on the 4000

BTW, you able to tear out that fuel pressure sender yet? Looking like in the next couple weeks I'm gonna be tearing into this puppy pretty good!

[jretal]

What oil pan is that? Doesnt look like a 4kq one?

Looks fun though, wish I could part a car out like that

yeah, like eric said... 7a

Though this has been a learning experience... I won't do this again... unless I have somewhere to keep the car out of sight... this is a REAL eyesore and has def been taking a toll on me just having to look at it day in and day out... I don't like the front of my house looking like this :bashtard:

[AudiSport4000]

Id like to part a car out at some point, I just dont have anyplace to do it, along with no Audi's around here to part :(

[jretal]

Well it finally happened... "the man" (aka the VA Beach City community improvement department) drove by my house and gave me a violation notice of the POS in my driveway lmao. Only took 'em a month, but I figured it was bound to happen. Guy said it needs to be gone in 7-10 days (he asked if that was enough time and I confirmed that I was planning on having it gone before that), but was really nice about the whole thing. He and I chatted a bit. He noticed that I had a couple audis and loved the color on the dearly departed 200. I refrained from showing him the 4000 in the garage, because apparently (get this), it's against zoning to be pulling motors and transmissions on MY OWN PROPERTY... I love it. Damn sometimes I miss living out in the sticks No big brother hoving over ya.

Regardless, 200 is ready to go meet its maker. I'm gonna arrange a pickup on wed when I'm home. Every remaining panel is now dented in some form or fashion, and only 2 windows are left intact. That will not be the case by the time they come to pick it up There will be no useable materials in this car for him to sell... he'll only be able to get the scrap metal value. Hey, if you won't give me any $$, no reason not to release a lil frustration on the car, right? Besides, I sold off the remainder of the useable parts already, so not like there's anything of huge value there.

Hopefully after this weekend I can start going full tilt on the 4000. I have a test tonight and 2 take home tests to finish by next tuesday, so once those are done and out of the way, I'm gonna be fully focused on getting the following done on the 4000:

1) Pull Evap core and associated lines
2) Wire Battery Box/Relocation kit to the trunk and 200amp breaker in the engine bay
3) send off pass tie-rod to be bent (to clear wastegate) by a MG'er that's hooking me up
4) Wire in and loosely install the 034 EFI ECU
5) Put in a parts order for the remaining parts I need for the motor so it can go in the car ('nother $700... ugh)

BTW, can any of you guys suggest where I can get 2.25" or 2.5" Aluminum piping for my intercooler routing? I'm halft tempted to just use aluminized exhaust tubing, but figured I'd ask the question first about the straight AL pipe.

Until next time!

[AudiSport4000]

BTDT with my old JT block. I had it sitting, bare, on a pallet in my driveway. Our housing addition association thought it looked "junky" to have it like that, which I can understand. All I had to do was put a tarp over it.

Doing the main positive battery cable is cake, as is the evap core. Reading these posts makes me wanna start another 20vt swap

[jretal]

Doing the main positive battery cable is cake, as is the evap core. Reading these posts makes me wanna start another 20vt swap

did you route it through the car or under the car? I think I'm gonna route it through the car, but don't want to put the pos cable too close to the wiring to the ECU so I don't put any unwanted interference near it... doubt anything on the list will be too difficult, just finding the time to do it is the trick.

[AudiSport4000]

I routed it through the interior, under the carpet. The ECU harness for my car and the positive battery cable go through different holes in the firewall as well.

[jretal]

Well, the time finally came mid last week... The 200 went off to meet its maker. So, after finally getting caught by "the man" I finally got the 'ol girl away from my driveway. Apparently it went straight to the crusher, do not pass go, do not collect $200. As the lady running the wrecker said "you boys plucked this thing cleaner than a chicken bone"

Here's what it looked like waiting for the wrecker to show up:



By the time I was done with it, every panel had some sort of dent in it. The back window was intact up until tuesday when I discovered that some piece of trash on my street lifted my radiator to the 4000 from infront of my house... so I kinda lost my composure a little bit and needed to hit something with a GD tool :-D The rear window tasted my wrath... I felt better afterwards.

This was the scene as we were trying to get the car onto teh flatbed... not too easy to move a car w/o the front wheels on it



I originally tried to use my jack as the 3rd wheel and roll it up. That lasted about 6" till it fell with a commanding *THUD* to the ground. So I jacked it up again and put it on boards. That def did the trick!

and to show that this lady was the real deal:



And the final farewell shot. Was kinda sad to see the 'ol girl go, but damn what a relief. I finally have my driveway back and I don't look too much like white trash. I need to get rid of the rims and transmission from infront of the garage, and I'll be 90% back to normal again... then once the 4k is out of the garage, I'll be back to 100%



As she cranked down on teh car I watched the rear tires bow out... I was sorta afraid she was going to blow the damn hub out of the bearings she cranked down so hard, since there were no axles on the rear of the car... thankfully, nothing happened... at least as far as I saw once it left my property Wink

From here, I'm gonna start cracking hard and fast on the 4000 8) I have one more take home test to bang out, and a few more parts to ship out to people that were sold from the car... after that... just a few more steps till the 4000 is up and running strong baby!

hope ya enjoyed the show...

[AudiSport4000]

Kinda sad to see the car hit the crusher, but thats how it goes . I woulda been hitting it with a sledge all over the place 8)

Im ready to see more pictures and updates

[jretal]

Kinda sad to see the car hit the crusher, but thats how it goes . I woulda been hitting it with a sledge all over the place 8)

Im ready to see more pictures and updates

I don't think my neighbors woulda appreciated me beating on the car that much. I was already getting a ton of looks cuz of hte car to begin with, so no need to draw more attention.

And patience grasshopper... hopefully by the end of next week I'll have a decent progress report on the 4000 :-D if not, full permission to do this to me :slap:

[jretal]

well I spent some quality time with the 4000 this weekend.

Started prepping the car so I could get to the firewall to do wiring, and what not for the 034 ECU

Started off pulling out the pesky Evap core... car is getting stripped of its A/C, so no need to have it sitting there. Here it is pulled:


Since I couldn't easily get to the screws on the back side of the evap core cuz I didn't drop the housing down (I didn't feel like tearing out the entire hvac box to accomplish this) I just ended up breaking it out :-D I then trimmed the tabs off it. I'm planning on mounting up a piece of sheet metal or aluminum to mount the Ib ecu... gotta figure out which I can get easier and get it done.

evap core pulled:


I then started pulling the battery cable through the car (after removing the rear seats and front pass seat) and into the trunk for the relocation


Here's what the battery box will look like in the trunk...



I'm not too happy with the layout and how this box works in all honesty, but I'll make due with it I guess. I'm very disappointed with how they want you to mount the box and clip the battery in so it doesn't shift... and being that the trunk in the 4000 is far from flat (at elast where i'm planning on putting it) it makes life a lot more difficult. I have some ideas of strapping that I"m gonna put under the box and bolt the box to it that way, but we'll see what I can come up with. The hardware store was closed by the time I started really thinking about this, so I decided to leave that for another day.

and here's the inside of the car, ready for me to start doing some wiring


While I had the interior torn apart, I figured I'd check on my heater core. I had a hunch that it was shot over the winter when I was using the car cuz I was getting that tell tale sweet smell in the air... and sure enough, my hunch was unfortunately correct :frustrated: Oh well, tack that onto the pile of parts I need to order.


From there, I positioned my 200 amp breaker on the firewall. I liked Javad's idea, so I figured I'd go with it as well... makes a good hub to mount up all the interior stuff as well as a jumping block if I ever have an issue w/ a dead battery and don't feel like digging into the trunk.


and here it is with the battery cable from the trunk wired to it:


I'm gonna solder on the terminal end after I get the battery box fully installed. I want to make sure I leave myself as much slack as I need for the trunk. There's a good 5 feet of excess in the engine bay right now, so that'll make a perfect new wire to go to the starter motor once I get that all figured out

So that's about it for the weekend. I kinda worked on the car when i felt like it... Had to enjoy a lil time on the beach for oct fest 8) I got all week off from class though, so I'll be working pretty diligently on this all week. First goal is to get the battery box fully installed. From there, I'll start working on getting the ECU wired the rest of the way in and get all the necessary wires run. Also, I need to find a switched power feed to give power to the ECU...

big question here though: Should I be putting in a relay for power going to the 034 ECU??? It would seem like a good idea to me, but figured I"d ask...

Here are the wires I'm gonna be tapping into, I'll find a solid ground for it somewhere nearby where I'm mounting the ECU as well.



That's it from me... hope ya enjoyed the show!

[SLAB]

you need that breaker at the battery itself, not on the firewall...

the bat cable isnt protected like you have it unless you have another fuse at the battery

[Matt]

As a side note if you ever planned on drag racing your battery box is not NHRA legal as far as I can tell, and you also need an NHRA approved Kill switch mounted at the rear. I would imagine some of the Sportscar clubs use similar rules for cars that have been modified.....

Other than that I say good job...

[AudiSport4000]

Looking all too familiar . Keep up the good work!

[jretal]

you need that breaker at the battery itself, not on the firewall...

the bat cable isnt protected like you have it unless you have another fuse at the battery

Though the cable isn't protected up to that point, there's nothing attached to it before that breaker, so I'm not 100% why that's a problem... I'm more worried about protecting the pieces that are attached to the battery than the cable itself, at least, that's what I thought the purpose of putting a breaker in like that was. If I'm wrong in my thoughts, please point me in the right direction.

As a side note if you ever planned on drag racing your battery box is not NHRA legal as far as I can tell, and you also need an NHRA approved Kill switch mounted at the rear. I would imagine some of the Sportscar clubs use similar rules for cars that have been modified.....

You saying that cuz of location or the fact that it's just put there? At this point, the box is just sitting there as a mock up until I can figure out a better way to get it bolted down and secured... so yeah, fear not... it'll be legal and securely mounted by the time I'm done with it. For the ACNA DEs that I do, no kill switch is necessary, so I should be OK... though if need be it'll be an easy addition. All they require is that the battery is properly secured down, so after a bit of engineering on my part I'll get that all buttoned down.

Looking all too familiar . Keep up the good work!

thanks Mike... I promised you carnage pictures, so I'm glad you enjoyed 'em :-D

[jretal]

Well, time for a lil bit of an update again... Been putting in some more time with the car.

Because of the akwardness of the location where I have to put the battery, I needed to come up with a way to mount the box, have it fully secured AND still hold the battery down. I came up with this design:


Basically it allows me to bolt the box down and captivate the battery via the threaded rods (provided with the kit)

box mounted:


and the wooden base I made to keep the battery from sliding around.



This is a better way than the stupid little plastic barrier they provided with the kit... raises the battery up so the little H-bracket can hold onto the battery, and keeps it from sliding forward and backwards

and the battery installed and bolted down:



Also, to do a better job of protecting the wire to the engine bay (per the suggestion of MANY people), I moved the circuit breaker from the engine bay to the battery box



And I picked up a set of battery posts from ebay for a deal:



Plan right now is to leave it hang like that... once I get the motor positioned, THEN i'll weld in the bracket. I just want to make sure that I have ample clearance for everything and it's not in the way... def solved my original issue of the power hub in the engine bay though

Now after getting my wiring straight through the help of 034 (see: http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12669), I was able to almost finish up the wiring harness... all I need to do is connect the following:

1) Ignition Coil
2) Tach
3) GPO for fuel pump relay
4) Switched and relayed power for the ECU and fuel pump relay
5) Hall sender

Here's the harness right now though:



and the old harness torn out of the 4000... talk about a mess of wires huh? :tard:



And after some digging in the fuse box (what a PITA) and probing with my multimeter, I was able to figure out the wires I need to cut and splice to run the Fuel Pump Relay... Here are the two plugs that I'll need to cut... wires are as follows:

-green w/ yellow stripe is the fuel pump power wire,
-Blue w/ red stripe is the power line
-Black wire is the 12v ignition trigger
-white w/ black stripe is the ground trigger.



Now that I got all the wiring lined up, my next step is mounting the ECU and associated power panel, etc etc... Since I didn't have any decent cardboard laying around, and wanted to do a mock up before doing it with metal, I made due with what I had... yes ladies and gents, a quality yuengling box was used :cheers: Worked rather well if ya ask me:





The cool part about this location for the ECU is that I can install the glovebox and make a hole in the back of it that will allow me to access the plug so I can program and adjust the ECU w/o crawling around or removing anything to access the ECU. Also will allow me to see the LED light to make sure the ECU is getting power, etc. And if all goes according to plan, I'll be able to install the baffle that went over the Evap core and completely hide all the wiring, ECU, fuse and relay panel, etc etc etc.

So at this point, I need to run the wires from the fuse panel and meet up with the tach wire and the ignition switch wire and run them to the pass side of the car. Then I need to wire in a relay that will power the 2nd fuse panel that I'm going to mount next to the ECU. I'll probably pick at that this weekend. I have a 25' spool of the techflex wire cover on its way to me... should be here on monday, so will start cracking on it later next week.

That's about it for this installment... until next time. It's def getting closer to completion though :woowoo: Within the next week or so I'm going to put in the last order I need for the remainder of the parts to reassemble the motor, and I'm meeting up with mholme next weekend to pick up other parts for the project... def can't wait to get this puppy running... kinda miss looking at the car in one piece 8)

[Marc]

you need that breaker at the battery itself, not on the firewall...

the bat cable isnt protected like you have it unless you have another fuse at the battery

Though the cable isn't protected up to that point, there's nothing attached to it before that breaker, so I'm not 100% why that's a problem...

because if the cable shorts to ground between your battery and the breaker on your firewall.. you've got a fire...


fire bad!

[SteveAngry]

Looking good Justin.

Steve

[Marc]

Also, to do a better job of protecting the wire to the engine bay (per the suggestion of MANY people), I moved the circuit breaker from the engine bay to the battery box

ah, much better


looking good!

[AudiSport4000]

I love the updates man, always good to have alot of pictures! Keep up the good werk