Convert VEMS econo seal to PNP for URS4.

[vwnut8392]

well i've completed everything and gave it a shot with no attempt to start. i tried to run a triggerlog and nothing happens. im not getting fuel or spark, i tested the spark and injector outputs individually and they are working. im using a config file edigreg hooked me up with thats a base for a PNP ECU. im going to see if i can figure out how to test the crank and cam sensors to see if their outputting a signal individually and the ECU just isnt seeing them.

[vwnut8392]

This is the document i found online that i used to make my jumper harness along with the .vemsconfig i have been trying to use. im using the latest firmware version as well and my board is a V3.7 board too.

[vwnut8392]

well so far i have 5v to the cam sensor and the engine RPM sensor (G28) but no 5v in the timing pin (G4) sensors connector. so i must have messed something up with installing hardware. this is getting frustrating.

[Marc]

well so far i have 5v to the cam sensor and the engine RPM sensor (G28) but no 5v in the timing pin (G4) sensors connector. so i must have messed something up with installing hardware. this is getting frustrating.

you should not have 5v at the pin and flywheel sensors. they are VR type.

start with the primary trigger. worry about the secondary later. I use a "jimstim" when diagnosing trigger issues here. pretty useful tool to have. allows you to simulate signals so you can probe around the ecu and see whats getting what.

[vwnut8392]

i thought about a jimstim actually but i wasnt sure if it would work with VEMS. my friend has one for his MS3X powered 55 beetle. i hope he'll let me borrow it for a while so i can figure this out.

[Marc]

i thought about a jimstim actually but i wasnt sure if it would work with VEMS. my friend has one for his MS3X powered 55 beetle. i hope he'll let me borrow it for a while so i can figure this out.

it doesn't produce a perfect "audi trigger" output, but it doesn't matter. you have succeeded when you start to see pulses in the trigger log. the way I test is like this: set the mode on the jimstim to 60-2, use the output to the signal pin on your primary trigger connection. if you dont get primary pulses in the trigger log, start probing the circuit board to follow the signal and where it goes. it should ultimately wind up at the lm1815 input pin, and the output should be providing a pulsetrain. if not, start working backwards from there.

on the secondary trigger, you can use the cam sync pulse on the jimstim to the reference pin input. just ground out the cam sensor input pin to bypass it for now. it should pulse once for every secondary trigger pulse when grounded like this. the real cam sensor "hides" the signal until the two line up.

hope that helps.

[vwnut8392]

i bought a jimstim and assembled it today. i figured out that i have nothing in R56 on my primary LM1815. is there supposed to be a resistor there?

[Marc]

i bought a jimstim and assembled it today. i figured out that i have nothing in R56 on my primary LM1815. is there supposed to be a resistor there?

the PnP box here has 18k in that spot.

[vwnut8392]

that explains it! i have 5V in all the right places on both LM1815 chips and the second one has the resistor in the same spot. i still dont understand how or why im not getting anything on the triggerlog from the secondary LM1815. another thing i noticed too when having the ECU hooked up to the jimstim is that when i set the crank signal to VR and attmept to use the TPS pot the ECU has no reaction but when i set the jimstim to hall i can manipulate the throttle pot and can see it react on the computer screen. i just found that strange. im just experimenting and trying to learn as much as i can about all of this.

[carl]

Not sure if it helps but here is an old layout of the secondary trigger that could help you figure out how it works:



Note now on newer units it's a pull down to ground vs pullup on the vr sensor's signal feed.

[vwnut8392]

well i got the resistors i ordered from mouser.com and wouldnt you know it i got the wrong ones. their too wide and it covers R56 and SJ2 so back to mouser.com to keep ordering resistors till i find the right one. Can anyone point me to a link to exactly what resistor i need to get this thing working? im getting rather frustrated with my way over priced paper weight and im about to toss it in my drawer of junk electronics and throw in the towel.

[vwnut8392]

well i made due with the 18k resistors i bought.

These are the resistors i ended up with.


my way of getting the resistor on R56 looks ghetto but im getting desperate. also you can see the zener diode i added as per your instructions.


These are the settings on my jimstim for the 60-2 trigger wheel.


This is what get on vemstune when i turn both RPM adjustments on the jimstim.


after all this i still get nothing in my trigger log at all. im starting to think it would have been easier to pull the engine and install the 60-2 trigger wheel on the rear main than deal with this. i feel i ruined my ECU and im out 750.00 now.

[vt10vt]

Don't freak out yet. My experience with the lm1815 is that they do a pretty good job of keeping things upstream safe ie your missing resistors or a bit of bad wiring doesn't seem to damage cpus receiving a signal from an lm1815. That said they themselves don't seem overly forgiving of mistakes so you might try swapping them around or some new ones. Guessing you'd have tried it already if you could but obviously a scope would be very helpful.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[vwnut8392]

i dont understand how the primary could have gone bad. this ECU never had power on it till i bought it. i got the 60-2 crank seal setup when i bought it and im starting to think i should just pull my engine and install the sensor and revert my ECU back to the way it was. i dont own a scope honestly. all i have is a jimstim thats supposed to be emulating a 60-2 crank signal for testing as marc suggested and my ECU hooked to a desktop PC on my work bench with vemstune. its getting frustrating honestly, im starting to wish i'd have never invested in this stuff. marc has been the only help with it so far, all the information in the wiki is so confusing im going bald trying to make sense of all the information there. for what was a DIY ECU that seemed to have good support originally it seems like things have really gone down hill. if i could grasp all this and make my ECU work i personally would create a thread on here with detailed information and pictures for the next guy who wanted to do this but i cant seem to find anything in specific to doing this. there's little snips of information scattered across a billion forums and wiki's and that makes it very frustrating. if i ditch trying to make it audi trigger and go 60-2 and i still cant get it to work im going to toss it on a shelf to collect dust, hold my bedroom door open with it or sell it off and cut my losses.

[Marc]

well, first red flag: you have a 1.2.11 config on a 1.2.24 firmware. go download the latest nightly vemstune to correct that. latest stable isn't going to have a config new enough to properly read stuff coming out of that ecu.

[vwnut8392]

i now have my firmware and config both on 1.2.23 and still no love. i wired in the coolant temp sensor, MAT sensor, TPS, fuel pump and CEL for fun to see if they would respond but something strange happens. when i have the stim with the primary trigger jumper on VR my the TPS potentiometer wont respond the fuel pump doesnt seem to prime and i dont get the CEL but when i put the jumper on hall everything works. makes no sense to me.

[chaloux]

I wish I could help but I honestly don't know enough about this stuff to say anything useful. I had huge issues with my VEMS install at first but was kinda doing some funky things... Urs PNP but with a 60-2 trigger on the front and non-TTL coils, so SORT OF urs PNP. But eventually I got it to work with Marc's help and it's been great since.

Keep at'r! You seem close but you're probably just missing one thing.

[vwnut8392]

Thanks man. well more bad news for me, car spun a rod bearing. i think im just going to ditch making these crank sensors work and go back to the 60-2 now that i have to pull the engine regardless. it seems like when it rains around me it freaking pours every time. Im going to go through the circuit for the primary trigger with a multimeter one more time and see if i can find the issue and if i cant find the problem reverting it back to the way it was seems like the only option to getting it working right on the stim and getting it running in my car.

I have the 60-2 crank sensor that goes in place of the rear main. from what i grasp of all of this to make my ECU back to the way it was to work with the 60-2 sensor i have to.....
-remove the solder blob from SJ6
-add a solder blob to SJ2
-remove my ghetto resistor from R56
-Remove diode from JP1
-Remove the solder blob from SJ7
-Remove the NPN transistor from Q13 and put a solder blob across the 2 pads that used to have a 0ohm resistor
-removed the resistor i added to R248
-Should i remove the wire from JP20 and put that back to the way it was?


I think thats about it. i dont need to remove the second LM1815 as its pretty much dead now with all of the stuff listed above done. im starting to think that putting it back to the way it was is the best option to test the ECU on the stim now anyhow because even though the ECU was new when i got it i could never verify if it actually worked. the previous owner of it never installed it. does my list of modifications look correct to disable the second LM1815 and make the primary trigger hall again?

the crank sensor that goes in place of the rear main i have is the one you sell or sold marc. its a 60-2 and when the the trigger wheel is at TDC i have 14 teeth from the 2 missing teeth to the tooth that lines up with the trigger wheel. im pretty sure thats right. no i just have to figure out the wiring for the sensor as the plug has been cut off.

These are the the trigger wheel settings that are in the vemsconfig that came with the ECU.


Im sorry for wasting your time marc, please dont take it to heart. Im sure we'll talk more and do more business as time goes on because i want one of those tommi's billet crank gears and the adjustable timing gear without a doubt for starters.

[carl]

A little too late now since you gave up but a few things i found about them vems program's trigger log diagnostic/visual:

When running it, all gauges freeze, tps etc, reboot ecu and restart the vems program and should be ok.
If you have no primary triggering, even if you get a successful secondary trigger event you won't see it in log until the primary(ring gear sensor) has triggered at least once after it .
High rpm trigger events will get spotty missed.
If you have sj7 jumpered / solder blobbed, you have to have the hall sensor signal grounded for a successful secondary trigger event.
It takes a bit of time before you get anything back from ecu.
Some Usb adapters might or might not work, use a serial cable to make sure.
Some versions of vems don't work too well for trigger logs (check past build release notes).
Usb oscilloscopes can be had on ebay for $60~
60-2 sounds like a way better path if you're pulling the tranny imo.

I now use a fp2 3009 relay on sj7 because my tdc pin isn't magnetic enough for the vems ecu at startup ( signal too faint / electrical is too noisy), could be related to the alu flywheel.

[vwnut8392]

yeah its a bit late now, i already reverted my ECU back to hall and tested with the jimstim on the 60-2 setting and it gets the trigger log perfectly. actually my engine is already half way out because of the spun rod bearing so im installing the 60-2 trigger wheel while i have it out. it seems running audi trigger is more of a pain than what its worth and that the 60-2 is more reliable.

[chaloux]

I love my 60-2 on the front. Super accessible. It can be a slight pain setting it up with the gap but really it's pretty easy.

[boost_addict]

60-2 is a much better setup vs Audi trig, one your running less trig sensors. its far more easier to setup vs dealing with the crank home pin and the 135 wheel. I have only done a couple i5 vems setups but everytime I get fucked by the crank home pin or one of the 3 trig sensors.

I have no experience with the flywheel side 60-2 wheel sensors, they look like they would work great, but I have used the crank pulley wheel add on a bunch of times. setting the gap is easy, screw it down until the sensor hits the wheel with a piece of paper in the gap, then give it a 1/3 of a turn back off. works everytime. just make sure you have the deg to tdc correct as that value will certainly be different depending on what bracket used to mount the crank sensor itself.