An Alpine URQ in Utah - Knee deep in Swarf

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Wheeljack
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Wheeljack »

quattro87 wrote:looks like you are upping the ante here on this build. I like it!! Is it going to be done for pikes peak?


I'll be happy to limbo under the bar you and others have already set here with your builds...i'm just here standing on the shoulders of giants.

...and about that Pikes Peak...sure would be nice, but that is awful ambitious...I'll put in a firm commitment for BBQ2012, though.
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quattro87
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by quattro87 »

Chris, what I like about this build is that I still have another project car to finish and I will possibly be able to take advantage of the new standard. I think the 2 piece struts will be on the list for sure along with the possible cast control arms that going two piece allows. Would you be able to get to Pikes Peak if a certain shell was out of your way allowing work efficiency to go up?
I was up your way again Monday and Tuesday to bring my daughter up to school.....her beetle or my TT wouldn't pass emmisions so we took Her Urq for a ride. About 1200 miles all total with some of it hard enough to have the exhaust collector and half the runners cherry red. I even bypassed a road closed sign to go over Wolf Creek pass and ran snow and ice over the ~9k ft summitt. It did really well except for me being almost in tears watching the slush and crap spray and splatter all over the car and I'm sure in the engine bay. You would have been proud of me!

The point being is that you won't have to do to much to pass me up......mine will be worn out before too long. Now the Sean boys....well that is a different story. :roll:
Twintowers

Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Twintowers »

Awesome build.... I just realized never got my blue print drawing from you???? :-( BAC sticker I see though, it's snowing here in the hills now, late winter/cool spring is upon us? :cheers:
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ralleyquattro
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by ralleyquattro »

quattro87 wrote:Chris, what I like about this build is that I still have another project car to finish and I will possibly be able to take advantage of the new standard. I think the 2 piece struts will be on the list for sure along with the possible cast control arms that going two piece allows.



No need for 2 piece to go to forged control arms.

Image

Two options, 18mm 20v ball joints on ebay.de or drill out the strut and use CQ/90q 19mm ball joints.

HTH
Martin Pajak

http://www.quattro.ca

82 Audi Ur-q, SQ project
83 Audi 80 q, Euro 2-Door
85 Audi Ur-q, Euro mit 3B
91 Coupe Quattro
93 Audi 80 q Avant, 2.5 TDI with 6-speed
04 Audi A4 1.8Tq Avant USP 6-speed
04 Audi A4 3.0q Avant USP 6-speed
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Wheeljack
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Wheeljack »

Twintowers wrote:...I just realized never got my blue print drawing from you????


I sent both copies out to your email address on Jan 5. The attachments were large (10+ MB) so perhaps your server rejected them.
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Wheeljack »

John, It's sad that your urq is going to be all old and worn out in just a few months time. Maybe you should just stop driving it so you can really enjoy it. :wink:...and as much as I'd like it out of here, I'd be lying if I said the 4Kq shell is holding me up in any way...

and Martin, thanks for the insight...appreciated as always...Is it right to assume I will probably be using B3 3 bolt ball joints as opposed to the B4/CQ ones that move the wheel forward in the arch? I may play around with options to center and obtain fair castor, but that seems like the right starting point...
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JamesBufkin

Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by JamesBufkin »

Did you pull the front fender off?
Didn't see any pictures that indicate you did.
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Wheeljack »

JamesBufkin wrote:Did you pull the front fender off?
Didn't see any pictures that indicate you did.


James...I've not, but it's been considered more than once. I have not found any rust or areas that look questionable from inside either fender/wheel well, so I'm not sure I would gain much. I know there can be hidden rust in that area, but the undercoating and tar seal seem to be holding up well from both sides.

Because of the way the fenders are seam sealed on and currently aligned perfectly, I didn't want to mess with them at this point.

Unless there are any extremely compelling reasons to do so, I was going to leave them on at this stage.
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by JamesBufkin »

You can't really see the rust from inside.
It hides in the layers between the fender and the front frame piece.
Its probably the #1 spot where rust sits on these cars and most people are shocked when the fender comes off.

I'm not just jerking your chain, but I really think you should at least take a look while you got it that much apart.
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Wheeljack »

Fair enough and point well taken. Now to convince myself...I guess if there is no major problem, then it shouldn't take up too much extra time, and if there is...then it's a damn good thing I did it...

And you are right in that there probably won't be a better time to do it...and it will make it much easier to really clean one of the few areas that haven't been thoroughly scrubbed due to lack of access.

Ugh...scope creep...is...inevitable...

and I guess that is part of the reason to put all this out there...to get feedback and BTDT experience from the experts...
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Mentosman42 »

Im currently in the process of getting the passenger side fender off, what a pain...


No doubt this is going to be one of the great URQ's, certainly giving me ideas.
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Wheeljack »

Mentosman42 wrote:Im currently in the process of getting the passenger side fender off, what a pain...


That's not the motivation I was looking for, Ken.

Is it a matter of breaking the sealer and goo free? If so, have you tried heating it up?
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Quattro v1.0 »

Chris, unless you have found that compelling reason to remove them - don't.

Yes, this would be the best time - but take a REAL good look before you decide, do some scraping and poking. Not every UrQ has rust there.
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by ralleyquattro »

Maybe the 7000 mile showroom examples... but any car that has been exposed to driving in wet will have hidden corrosion that is impossible to see from outside.

I agree with James, now is the time to get it off and once the fender goes back on it can be sealed just as well or better than factory.
If the car is gonig to be driven in rain/wet I would consider installing the Coupe/4k fender liners.

HTH
Martin Pajak

http://www.quattro.ca

82 Audi Ur-q, SQ project
83 Audi 80 q, Euro 2-Door
85 Audi Ur-q, Euro mit 3B
91 Coupe Quattro
93 Audi 80 q Avant, 2.5 TDI with 6-speed
04 Audi A4 1.8Tq Avant USP 6-speed
04 Audi A4 3.0q Avant USP 6-speed
JamesBufkin

Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by JamesBufkin »

I have to agree with Martin.
You can't see the scale from underneath or the engine bay.

best case it'll be surface rust which you'll want to clean off and protect the metal, worse case its a near hole.

And if you remove them, it's easy deal to re-seal better than factory. OEM seal will be dried up and cracking anyway.
And since you're repainting, its no big deal to respray the bolts after your put it back.
Twintowers

Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Twintowers »

Betting no rust under those fenders, I removed mine they are nice, and clean there is a small rust spot on the leading edge of my drivers side rocker near the fender seam, pretty common on these cars... I will send you my other e-mail address, and will see if that works when you get a chance no hurry I would rather see you making headway ... Until then happy sorting... I'm going skiing! :woowoo:
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Mentosman42 »

cbrydon wrote:
Mentosman42 wrote:Im currently in the process of getting the passenger side fender off, what a pain...


That's not the motivation I was looking for, Ken.

Is it a matter of breaking the sealer and goo free? If so, have you tried heating it up?


Sorry haha, just being honest. Seriously you should take them off. my car was garage kept its entire life and its starting to rust on the top of the forks. And yes its just a matter of getting them lose from the seam sealer/caulking/whatever it is. The top flange isnt that bad but the flange up the fenderwell was also sealed up and there really isnt any way to get a scraper in there. Im thinking of taking a piece of flat stock like 2' long and sharpening it like a scraper and going at it from under the car(going straight up) while its on the lift.

The piece of mind will be worth it tho, after I get that fender off I can do a little rust repair and give it a good coat of paint and seam sealer.



ralleyquattro wrote:Maybe the 7000 mile showroom examples... but any car that has been exposed to driving in wet will have hidden corrosion that is impossible to see from outside.

I agree with James, now is the time to get it off and once the fender goes back on it can be sealed just as well or better than factory.
If the car is gonig to be driven in rain/wet I would consider installing the Coupe/4k fender liners.

HTH


are these still available somewhere? would LOVE a set of fender liners.
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by ralleyquattro »

Mentosman42 wrote:
ralleyquattro wrote:Maybe the 7000 mile showroom examples... but any car that has been exposed to driving in wet will have hidden corrosion that is impossible to see from outside.

I agree with James, now is the time to get it off and once the fender goes back on it can be sealed just as well or better than factory.
If the car is gonig to be driven in rain/wet I would consider installing the Coupe/4k fender liners.

HTH


are these still available somewhere? would LOVE a set of fender liners.


Just get them used. Anyone parting out a 1984 and up Coupe or 4k will/should have a set.
They are not a direct fit, but because they are plastic a bit of cutting in couple of spots is required.
I still can't believe low priced Coupes and 4k got them and Ur-q went all the way into the 90s without them.

Cheers
Martin Pajak

http://www.quattro.ca

82 Audi Ur-q, SQ project
83 Audi 80 q, Euro 2-Door
85 Audi Ur-q, Euro mit 3B
91 Coupe Quattro
93 Audi 80 q Avant, 2.5 TDI with 6-speed
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Wheeljack »

I wouldn't mind picking up a set of liners to run.

So I poked my head under there a bit more closely to see how things looked. I had looked prior to cleaning, but didn't really look once I could see everything better.

Here are a few shots of the inside front fenderwells...

Drivers fore...

Image

Drivers aft...

Image

Passenger fore...

Image

Passenger aft...

Image

There were a couple areas around the grommets that must have had some tape that was coated over at the factory. I plan on retouching these and any other exposed areas.

Image

But, based on what these look like from underneath and up top, I don't think I'm going to be pulling the fenders just yet. I feel like I'd be doing more harm than good (scraping into bare metal, bending/tweaking fenders during removal, etc.) given that it looks like this after 30 years. If it looks twice as bad after another 30, I'd be happy. The old stuff is still surprisingly flexible.

I will consider myself warned, but on to other things...
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Wheeljack »

Moving forward on multiple fronts…

In an effort to identify any items that I’ve not thought about yet, a bit of mocking things up has started. I had some bits and pieces that I needed to start to go through and make sure things were going to work. And if not, start to figure out what to do…

I picked up some brown carpet from a 4KQ in the yard during summer 2010. It was in pretty good shape—not perfect, but pretty good, and mine was surely not. If you recall, this is what the original carpet was looking like:

Image

That was not going to cut it, and I am quite fond of dark brown interiors, so I was going to replace and upgrade with brown pieces. The updated dash and console is all brown. Since I’m using the urS seats, which are black, there will be a two-tone effect, but I’m hoping it will look OK. It looks good in my head for now. I also sourced a late black leather rear seat to use, which should bring things together. I still am in need of the rear parcel shelf for this car.

So back to the carpet…I wasn’t sure how good the 4KQ carpet would fit, but looked around and there seemed to be only minor differences, which I can’t recall ATM. Being 20+ years old, they required some serious cleaning. The dirt just kept coming and coming, but finally they were clean enough.

The front one is extremely heavy with the sound rubber underneath. Drying out in the sun…

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The rear one is only standard formed carpet. Much quicker to dry, too…

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So, let’s see how they fit…Rear looks good…

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Oh, yeah…I like that…let’s see how the front fits…

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So I can’t stop there. Not only is this helping out with the test fitting, but it’s clearing up valuable space in the electronics area. Let’s see how those door panels are looking…

First, we need to put some new plastic on the doors…4 mil…

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I did that to both the doors and held the plastic in place with some good ol’ 3M Super77 spray adhesive. Then it was time to get the door panels back in place. They were kind of curled from being sun-baked for so long. I gave them a bit of reverse tweaking to straighten them out. Not too shabby…

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Now that all that is cleaned out from around my electronics bench, I can get this set up again to do some work on the wiring…

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The two green tubs are filled with Audi harnesses and pieces of harnesses. In an effort to minimize costs, I’ve been trying to reclaim used connectors whenever possible, so long as they are not compromising integrity of the circuit.

Doing it this way makes it a little more challenging to build the harness, because I have to get the wire lengths and connector position right at the beginning. No crimping contacts for the connectors at the end. This means that I won’t be I’ve picked up pigtails for most of the connectors that I am upgrading to (EV14s, Bosch coil packs, LSU 4.2 WB, etc.), and can use the JPT from old Audi harnesses for most of the rest. And then the assortment of the interior round style connectors for tying harnesses together on the interior.

Here we go again…digging through the wiring diagrams for AAN…ABY…4KQ…URQ…CGT…lots of decisions to make…

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I started with the injectors. They seemed easy enough to wire up for some practice and a good start to the VEMS engine harness.

These are some new take-off EV14 pigtails…and I liked the colors…

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This was before I got my workbench back. So I started in the kitchen…

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And then it was getting them tied together, spaced properly, and sealed up. You can’t use boots on this style of connector, but they do have the silicone seals around the individual wires entering the connector body.

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And here is the completed sub-harness. It will be tied with the other sub harnesses once final lengths are determined.

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Speaking of final lengths, I’m thinking of mounting the VEMS box something like this. Orientation TBD…

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A collection of connectors to harness from my harness…

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I pulled out some old connectors and cleaned them up a bit. I also got the boots, which are quite handy…

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Some cleaned up boots that are sized for the 4-pin coil pack connectors…

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A slight modification and these will work just fine…

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I also needed some more supplies for the harness. I got most of what will be needed out of two kits for less than $10 from Harbor Freight…Some 4 foot sections of various diameters…These will be used for holding bundles together.

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And some smaller lengths, mostly used to cover bare metal contacts and joints…

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So then I started on the coil pack harness. Here is a sample of some of the many solder joints I’ve made. Each one trimmed of sharp edges, prior to heat shrinking, and staggered to minimize short circuiting through the thinner heat shrink sections…

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And here is the coil pack sub-harness mocked up in place and mostly finished on that end…The other end still needs a bit of work…

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I like that…How about another angle???

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And then I started pulling together components to get a connector list together. I had to order a few things too…
Bosch WB…

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I was disappointed to see an error in my VR6 TB purchase. I wanted OBD2 because it is bigger than the OBD1, but when I saw this, I failed to realize it was DBW. I need the DBC OBD2 one now. Oh well, I should be able to do a nearly straight across exchange…

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And then finally got in the suspension/chassis parts I’ve been waiting 2.5 months for…

Control arm bushings and a rear diff mount…

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And some adjustable subframe mounts from 034…

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They were even kind enough to send them overnight for a Saturday delivery after a 2+ month backorder. How thoughtful! I’ve still got some things to pick up, but this will keep me moving forward for a while.

I had some old serial cables laying around and used one to connect my LCD to the VEMS unit. I cut one end off to connect to the LCD…

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And following the pinout from the Wiki manual, I connected it. I also tied in a small potentiometer that is used to adjust the contrast.

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I then tested out the backlighting on the display. As you can see, I had to pick a red one to use.

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Now I need to decide if I want to toggle the backlight with a switch, or control it through a VEMS output. Details.

And then I was digging through some more parts and ran across this, which I hadn’t noticed until now…

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That large guy was the original from the urq and the smaller is what I’ve usually seen on most of the cars I’ve worked on. So how
much heavier is it?

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So I guess I should put this one in…

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So here’s to about 6.4 lbs of reduction from in front of forward axle. Nice!

And then I started looking into what could be done with the 7A cover. I think it will work with a bit of machining. I installed a coil on a plug and made some measurements to determine its position WRT the valve cover.

Here is the interference that is the major problem…

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There should be enough meat to machine the bore a bit. This will leave a .050” rim width around the top…

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A notch will also need to be cut into the rim at an angle corresponding to the coil pack orientations…

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The actual orientation is dictated by the fill port on the cover. It forces the coil packs into the position with wires point to exhaust side of the head. Not optimal, but not a deal killer for me either…

There is not a lot of clearance. Some of the caps are a bit smaller too, which gives some more wiggle room…

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Here is a close-up of what the bores will need to look like. The bore provides a friction fit on the rubber barbs and eliminates the need to clamp these down…or so the story goes…lol.

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So I’ll machine the 7A cover to look something along these lines. And I’ll add a breather port somewhere…

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So that was about two weeks’ worth of work and along with my spring time yard and gardening duties, I’ve been told I’m spending too much time out in the garage. So now I’ll be spending some time in the dog house, before I get back out there again…
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Dave »

nice update, how many extra coil pack harnesses did you make? those look super clean!
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Quattro v1.0 »

Holy cow - Chris you are a machine!
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Audilard »

Nice work Chris!
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Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by ralleyquattro »

Not sure if it's too late but one thing I wish I did with my crpet was to dye it along with kick plates (carpet portion) and center console, that way all the faded spots are gone and all matches perfectly.

Just a thought.
Martin Pajak

http://www.quattro.ca

82 Audi Ur-q, SQ project
83 Audi 80 q, Euro 2-Door
85 Audi Ur-q, Euro mit 3B
91 Coupe Quattro
93 Audi 80 q Avant, 2.5 TDI with 6-speed
04 Audi A4 1.8Tq Avant USP 6-speed
04 Audi A4 3.0q Avant USP 6-speed
Katman

Re: An Alpinweiss URQ in Utah - Springing Into Action

Post by Katman »

ralleyquattro wrote:Maybe the 7000 mile showroom examples... but any car that has been exposed to driving in wet will have hidden corrosion that is impossible to see from outside.


Or easily seen from outside.. :frustrated:

You just don't want to have things heading this way:
Image

In bad cases, rust can get all the way down the "A" pilllar, and down to the floor seam..
Image

More on that: http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=19322794
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