Loxxrider's 200 20v Revver: See you on "The Project Pad"

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:49 pm

Nope, Canada.

Lets see about my goal...on stock rods, I'm looking to take my chances with about 350whp.

If I decide to throw rods in this engine as opposed to waiting until I do an all out build, then I would turn up the boost and try and make 400whp. Thats about where I'll probably stop on the stock H1C and 440's that I have. I am confident that they can make that power on 4 bar or so. There is an upgrade for the H1C to make it 60mm comp wheel as opposed to 54mm and I may throw that on along with some bigger injectors to try and make 450-500whp. Gotta stop there because of tranny issues lol. I'd expect to throw in some valve springs and retainers at this point so I can rev to 8250 or 8500 if I really needed to.

After that, the big build comes in. That wont be done for a long while. The above should hold me over for a bit though!

So here is the final parts list for the 350whp that I'm trying to achieve.

-Holset H1C with 12cm wastegated housing (half a check...still need the housing)

-STR manifold (probably modify the k26 one to fit the turbo if they wont get back to me on the t3 one) (NOT check)

-oil lines and adapters to make them work (check...minus two adapters)
-440cc injectors (check)
-VEMS with LS2 coils (check)
-IC setup (treadstone 1200cfm core and hargett connections) (1/3 of a check...still need core and piping)
-custom downpipe (check)
-tune (check)

I like their IWG manifold, but we need external too! Granted I wont be running external at first, but maybe when the boost goes up. Who knows. Its just nice to have the option.

qezel · Post by **qezel** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:49 pm

that whine is most likey from an over-tensioned belt.. BTDT with my a4.. the 90* test isn't "can i make it twist 90* if i twist as hard as possible?".. loosen that sucker up a tad, let it idle and if it goes away you're good.. if it doesn't go away put it back to the original tension and look elsewhere

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:30 pm

Word thanks! I'll give it a try. Def seemed pretty loose, but what do I know. Thanks again

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:08 pm

loxxrider wrote:Nope, Canada.

:thumbsup:

I like their IWG manifold, but we need external too! Granted I wont be running external at first, but maybe when the boost goes up. Who knows. Its just nice to have the option.

Well, given your plans, I would go IWG and then upgrade to a tube header when the time comes

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:16 pm

True thats not a bad path to take...but its also a $165 more expensive path unfortunately.

I may sell my tial 44mm gate for some extra funds though. I dunnoooo. I got SUCH a good deal on it I feel like its stupid to sell it.

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:38 pm

True, a bit more money. Will the EWG log really make more power than the IWG?

boschman36 · Post by **boschman36** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:52 pm

loxxrider wrote:Also, if anyone has a t3-flanged STR manifold...I'll pay premium bux for it.

DEAR 034: I, and I'm sure I speak for all of us here, would absolutely love to buy a t3 manifold with ext. wg provisions for the price of $3-400 if you made one. Basically the 7a turbo one or one just like the STR piece. I'm sure if you did that, 10-20 people would sign up and pay for one up front. If that doesn't happen, then I'm sorry but my business has to go somewhere else.

Just a little suggestion and wishful thinking.

I'd be on that like a cheap suit! Not like there wouldn't be a market for it...

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:05 am

Mcstiff wrote:True, a bit more money. Will the EWG log really make more power than the IWG?

Thats not for anyone to say unless they were compared directly. Its just that the ext. gate provides for more boost control on a bigger turbo with internal gate. Sometimes the internal gate wont be enough to keep the boost down, thus the need for a bigger ext. one. The STR one might well outflow the 7AT one, but noone has compared them to my knowledge. Its been compared to the RS2 though, but I'll let you do the research on that as I don't want to impose.

boschman36 wrote:
loxxrider wrote:Also, if anyone has a t3-flanged STR manifold...I'll pay premium bux for it.

DEAR 034: I, and I'm sure I speak for all of us here, would absolutely love to buy a t3 manifold with ext. wg provisions for the price of $3-400 if you made one. Basically the 7a turbo one or one just like the STR piece. I'm sure if you did that, 10-20 people would sign up and pay for one up front. If that doesn't happen, then I'm sorry but my business has to go somewhere else.

Just a little suggestion and wishful thinking.

I'd be on that like a cheap suit! Not like there wouldn't be a market for it...

Thats what I'm sayin. If I was 034, I'd say ef selling the RS2 rep one and start selling one like I suggested. SO MANY more people would buy one. I know I'm not the only one out there who sees it this way.

tommyoquattro · Post by **tommyoquattro** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:34 am

just a quick question about the whine noise.. what kind of water pump did you put on? Was it a mahle? Austin warned me about those pumps but i used one anyways on my coupe and i get that exact noise at the same rpm every now and then. seems to go away when its warm or at least i dont notice it. I would try and back off yout t-belt tension just slightly like Will said to see if you can give the pump some more life. im gonna try the same thing when i can get some free time and motivation to do it.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:43 am

Its not Mahle its some Italian one...supposedly the manufacturer of the wp's for Ferrari, Maserati, BMW, etc.

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:15 pm

loxxrider wrote:Thats not for anyone to say unless they were compared directly. Its just that the ext. gate provides for more boost control on a bigger turbo with internal gate. Sometimes the internal gate wont be enough to keep the boost down, thus the need for a bigger ext. one.

This is another commonly misunderstood area; common knowledge has firmly established that external wastegates are superior and most just run with that “knowledge”. Both are very effective and reliable ways to control boost...
-Due to the way the wastegate vents directly behind the turbine, the venting can cause turbulence which can adversely affect boost control and turbo flow. Proof of this effect is rare and its effect seen more rarely.
-Spring rates inside the wastegate are difficult to change and require a new actuator.
-Turbo clocking not as flexible as the wastegate actuator mounting forces the compressor housing into specific locations
-Limited in size, typically internal wastegate valves measure in the 25mm range, which doesn’t make them as useful for very low boost applications.

Bigger EWG or Smaller/better suited TC.

quattro87 · Post by **quattro87** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:36 pm

How is the Infinity with a 35r??? Hmmmm... maybe my wife would like a 35r on hers.....

Hank, go ahead and save that conversation with the wife for the weekend that you are going to be down here. I would like to be there for that one. I can just see how excited she is going to be already, especially when you start into the financing the project portion of the conversation. Pull out all the stops and tell her that the rear wheels will really be able to spin on the ice covered roads then. It ought to be good. :lol:

Sorry for the hy-jack Chris. It looks like it would be a decent turbo on a 3b and especially if it is YOUR car and not the wife/girlfriend's.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:21 pm

quattro87 wrote:
How is the Infinity with a 35r??? Hmmmm... maybe my wife would like a 35r on hers.....

Hank, go ahead and save that conversation with the wife for the weekend that you are going to be down here. I would like to be there for that one. I can just see how excited she is going to be already, especially when you start into the financing the project portion of the conversation. Pull out all the stops and tell her that the rear wheels will really be able to spin on the ice covered roads then. It ought to be good.

Sorry for the hy-jack Chris. It looks like it would be a decent turbo on a 3b and especially if it is YOUR car and not the wife/girlfriend's.

I am pretty confused by these last two posts...

I don't see anything pertaining to an infinity or 35r in here???

Don't get me wrong, I dont mind the convo in here, I am just a LOT lost lol.

Mcstiff wrote:
loxxrider wrote:Thats not for anyone to say unless they were compared directly. Its just that the ext. gate provides for more boost control on a bigger turbo with internal gate. Sometimes the internal gate wont be enough to keep the boost down, thus the need for a bigger ext. one.

This is another commonly misunderstood area; common knowledge has firmly established that external wastegates are superior and most just run with that “knowledge”. Both are very effective and reliable ways to control boost...
-Due to the way the wastegate vents directly behind the turbine, the venting can cause turbulence which can adversely affect boost control and turbo flow. Proof of this effect is rare and its effect seen more rarely.
-Spring rates inside the wastegate are difficult to change and require a new actuator.
-Turbo clocking not as flexible as the wastegate actuator mounting forces the compressor housing into specific locations
-Limited in size, typically internal wastegate valves measure in the 25mm range, which doesn’t make them as useful for very low boost applications.

Bigger EWG or Smaller/better suited TC.

Are you trying to prove me wrong or right? I'm confused on this too lol.

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:15 pm

loxxrider wrote:Are you trying to prove me wrong or right? I'm confused on this too lol.

I've got nothin to prove.

Just talkin about IWG v EWG; Internal seems to be fine if you are not trying to limit boost too much.

This CQ making 400+WHP with a 3071R seems to be fine with the IWG

Looks so clean

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:06 pm

Mcstiff wrote:
loxxrider wrote:Are you trying to prove me wrong or right? I'm confused on this too lol.

I've got nothin to prove.

Just talkin about IWG v EWG; Internal seems to be fine if you are not trying to limit boost too much.

This CQ making 400+WHP with a 3071R seems to be fine with the IWG

Looks so clean

oh gotcha. Definitely a true story

derrish_vulf · Post by **derrish_vulf** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:05 am

He already has a Tial 44, it would make no sense at all to change to an internal gate just because they dont make a manifold with a t3 flange with an EWG provision.
I also want to say that in your post you said WG springs on EWG are difficult to change. Are you kidding me?

Justin517 · Post by **Justin517** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:32 am

I think I mentioned this before...get the manifold without the wastegate port and get or make a turbo flange spacer with a provision for a wastegate.

would you have room for something like this:

?

Mcstiff · Post by **Mcstiff** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:22 am

derrish_vulf wrote:He already has a Tial 44, it would make no sense at all to change to an internal gate just because they dont make a manifold with a t3 flange with an EWG provision.
I also want to say that in your post you said WG springs on EWG are difficult to change. Are you kidding me?

Considering that I was quoting from the link in my post I was not saying anything about EWG Springs.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:46 am

Yeah, I could do something like that, BUT I'd much rather spend less and have the STR and no adapter things.

Justin517 · Post by **Justin517** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:17 pm

ah ok. I wasnt sure how much the STR mani's go for.

derrish_vulf · Post by **derrish_vulf** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:04 pm

Why dontcha get that cheapo ebay tubular one chop off the flange and weld a t3 flange on. Would be a lot easier than welding to iron...

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:08 pm

Well, I dont have much faith in the tubular one. The STR has been proven multiple times to make good power and be reliable/robust. I also like that the STR places the turbo in stock or close to stock location. Tube one wont...not that thats much of an issue.

The tube one WILL crack. The STR one probably wont.

I may not have to weld to iron if 1) they tell me they are going to have the t3 ones again 2) I "modify" the flange on the manifold and or the turbo to fit, or 3) I get an adapter thing. They are pretty simple and cheap.

hypothetical · Post by **hypothetical** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:17 pm

How much is STR version? I have a guy local that can tig you up one for probably $200-$300 plus maerials, But it would be EXACTLY what you want. BTW that's a log style with External Wastegate...

..and I am absolutely in love with this engine bay.

loxxrider · Post by **loxxrider** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:14 pm

hypothetical wrote:How much is STR version? I have a guy local that can tig you up one for probably $200-$300 plus maerials, But it would be EXACTLY what you want. BTW that's a log style with External Wastegate...

..and I am absolutely in love with this engine bay.

STR is $160 + like $40 shipping.

What you said is a pretty sweet deal though. Price on tubular equal length?

not that I have the money for that now. Anyway, if I wanted to do a tigged log one I'd def want to do a brace too. My buddy has a good one and it used to crack all the time.

hypothetical · Post by **hypothetical** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:24 pm

Maybe we could get a group by price on equal length, especially if we built the prototype. I am gonna need one for my 90. I can cut form and tack it up. Just need a good example and some tubing which he can get me. Hmmm... wish I wasn't so F'ing busy.

Do you have any pics of the dream manifold...?