MK4 GLI 1.8T _ a daily driver experiment...

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MK4 GLI 1.8T _ a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:51 am

Hey guys, my name's Monty - first ever "build thread". At one point I had a perfectly good 2002 Jetta GLS… ran great, no issues. After a while, stock just wasn't cutting it - but what to do? Build an R-Line Jetta or sell it and buy a GLI that I won't have to modify… except maybe suspension and a tune. After all, it already has Recaro seats, BBS wheels, three-spoke steering wheel, etc… sound familiar to anyone?

My People's Car is at the mild end of the build spectrum for sure - probably shouldn't even be starting a thread here… who knows where this will lead :D

Anyway, few basic specs on the original car:
    Compression: 9.5:1
    Displacement: 1781 cc
    Bore: 81.0 mm
    Stroke: 86.4 mm
    Curb Weight: 3106 lbs - now?
    Weight Dist, Front: 59% - now?
    Weight Dist, Rear: 41% - now?
    Track @ Front: 1513 mm
    Track @ Back: 1494 - now 1505 mm

Ended up getting a Unitronic Stage 2 flash & installed Vogtland coils not long afterwards…
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Next up was a VAST w/m kit, then upping boost to Stage 2+ levels via Hex Editor --> shows two hidden channels in Unisettings. 0e & 0f - adjust 0e (load scaling) for more boost…
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A dyno deal came up so went for a few pulls. The winter rubber was breaking loose @ 3500 :( Each pull I added a little fuel as my butt-dyno had been telling me the car made more power with a little extra - although the w/m should have allowed me to pull a little fuel… butt-dyno turned out to be right --> found out afterwards, I had a leaky exhaust mani that was throwing my trims off...
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Last edited by All_Euro on Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:59 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:52 am

The car had a full 2.5" APR exhaust when I bought it. The cat came apart inside so I replaced it with a "perfect fit" 3.0" catless down pipe. Was looking promising…
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Ended up having to cut up my old downpipe and find a clamp to make ends meet (thanks 034)…
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Last edited by All_Euro on Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:53 am

No emissions testing where I live so bought some resistors and started deleting. Pretty tight, messy bay even half pulled apart…
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Adios - you won't be missed…
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:57 am

By this time I had already done the timing belt once and it was almost that time again - plus I had to replace a passenger tie-rod & drivers CV boot before I lost my loaner garage space. Cleaned up CV Joint…
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As mentioned - loosing loaner garage space so might as well do the TB a few thousand early and convert to a manual tensioner. Bought the proper tensioning tool afterwards of course…
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:04 am

While I was in there I thought I'd try and get at a broken exhaust manifold stud. Super tight back there so I pulled the engine mounts and rolled the engine/tranny away from the firewall with a jack. Layed down a little cardboard for comfort…
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Stud in question…
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Started with a left-hand drill bit before moving on to other methods…
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:17 am

Lets start into the "experiment" part of my daily. I had been wanting to inject w/m pre-turbo for a while so why not use the vacant port at the bottom of the TIP? With so little room to mount a nozzle in front of the comp wheel this seemed like a good location...
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A year later, when I finally looked at the opening inside the TIP - look what the spray was contending with! You can just imagine the fine mist hitting every wall in sight and turning into droplets...
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No surprise here - erosion on the right wheel - I had feeling this might happen. Didn't really care though as these stocker turbos are only worth a hundred &I wanted to try some different things for myself (too many conflicting stories about knowing a guy - blah, blah, blah.) before moving on to more a more expensive snail…
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Last edited by All_Euro on Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:34 am

Guess I'm out of order now but a while back I had done some porting work on the exhaust mani as well as the turbine housing of my mighty K03. Housing on the left shows a fair amount of extra material around the top and left in the gasket opening…
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Next up - pair the ported turbine housing with a compressor housing tapped for w/m. The idea here is avoid damaging the comp wheel while still managing the heat from 30psi/small turbo…
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New nozzle location - and this is how the turbo currently runs. This 0.75 gph nozzle been taking care of the heat really well but I'll pull the turbo off & apart soon to see if the spray has been hitting the comp wheel or not...
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:47 am

Just need to slap the turbo on and go. Looks good…
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:wtf: right...
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Thankfully I had some spare parts on hand - waiting to get into the game…
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Like a glove - except I haddn't thought about how hot the nozzle and line were going to get so I just capped the nozzle holder until I bought heatshield to protect them. BTW, the 3.0 gph nozzle was only used for the test fit...
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:58 am

Since I'm wrenching outside now, and it was a nice day, I thought I'd fit a Fumoto oil drain valve so speed up future changes. They didn't make one for the hybrid pans at the time though so I just filed down the adapter…
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Hangs down a bit though - tried pulling the nipple off but it seals the valve so I'll end up buying a new one WITHOUT the extension...
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:19 am

I've got a VEI boost/IAT gauge to monitor boost & charged air-temps directly after the turbo. The boost gauge has been hooked up for months but, until just recently, I couldn't find a nut to fit the sensor. Shouldn't be an issue - 3/8" NPT… but none of the specialty shops had anything - I live in a city with over a million people :shame: Eventually found this…
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Just have to trim it up a sniff with my… urm - wall vice and hack saw…
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Finally in business…
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:23 am

Oh BTW, if you don't feel like replacing meth pumps on a regular basis - stay away from the "Surflo"… USRT sold me a nicely adjusted Auquatec, on the left, that pressures up to 300 psi…
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I've also picked up an EGT probe from Auber Instruments that will be installed into the collector of a new exhaust mani that Doug from Frankenturbo has sent my way. Actually, he was kind enough to include an Auber Multi-gauge too; so when that arrives (& the weather allows) I'll install and start logging :) Here's the gauge…
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Last edited by All_Euro on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby PRY4SNO » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:47 pm

Nice work so far!

I'll be sure to hit you up for the lowdown when time comes to clean and repack my CVs.


With your EGT probe does it go into the exhaust stream naked or is there a thermowell included to shield it from direct exposure? I know Javad, for one, had a few burn up on the 80tq before he protected it from direct heat.

And about the pump, where do you intend to mount this one? I like that where Eddie mounted his in the trunk, which helps the weight distribution and stealth. Plus he made a mounting bracket to fit a gallon jug of boost juice so he doesn't drain the washer fluid reservoir, and it also allows for quick and easy refills.



Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:
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|| 2010 Golf Sportwagen TDI /// Farmenwagen
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:51 pm

Thanks - it's mostly maintenance ATM but trying to have a little fun along the way too ;)

I was just happy to get the CVJ back together after cleaning it up - my friend had sold her place and the movers were coming the next morning… still had TB, etc to finish too!

Yes the tip of the EGT probe is exposed - you can see it in the pic. They do offer a shielded version that's rated to 1100*C instead of the 1000*C model I bought. But Doug recommended this one since it reacts faster and time spent at the elevated temps are so brief. Not sure what kind of EGT probe Javad was using but Doug's has held up well on his F23 TT test mule. Here's the Auber link… http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... cPath=5_22

The w/m pump USRT sent me has been in active duty for a while now and is mounted in the driver's side of the engine bay - sandwiched between the battery and fender. Trunk mount is a good idea & will come down the road a little. I'm under the impression that the driver's front & passenger's back are the heavy corners on this car -> so the battery can go back there too! I have a 5.5L OEM Euro washer reservoir so it only needs to be filled every couple weeks or so… but this is extra weight up front that will likely be shifted near the back passenger side axle down the road.
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby loxxrider » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:35 pm

Nice to see something other than the usual audi stuff here. Good work. Looking forward to seeing some hard data on this pre turbo meth deal.
Last edited by loxxrider on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby Mcstiff » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:55 pm

So isn't this really post turbo AKA post turbine [compressor lol]? Granted different and closer to the source of heat (compression) but will it have the same impact as spraying into the turbine?
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:12 am

loxxrider wrote:Nice to see something other than the usual audio stuff here. Good work. Looking forward to seeing some hard data on this pre turbo meth deal.


Thanks - I'd always wanted an S4 but here I am… rockin' the FWD instead :nuts: Actually this particular model of Jetta has a sweet interior and once I build a garage I'll see what I can do about getting some power to the other two wheels!

Pre-turbo injection doesn't seem to be that popular with the VAG crowd for some reason but has been used for years in the JDM & diesel circles… my butt dyno has confirmed results but since I can't really post that I'll get some logs for ya'… good - bad - or otherwise :)
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:39 am

Mcstiff wrote:So isn't this really post turbo AKA post turbine? Granted different and closer to the source of heat (compression) but will it have the same impact as spraying into the turbine?


Ya, this latest nozzle placement is post-compressor rather than pre-turbo… not post-turbine though. I had thought of placing the nozzle immediately after the turbo (where my 2nd IAT sensor is) but I didn't want to loose the benefits of wet-compression entirely… although I'm not sure if this in-turbo location is getting the back of the comp wheel wet. When I swap manifolds and install the EGT probe I'll see if I can get a picture of the wheel.

As Hank pointed out, in another thread, the best effects are seen by spraying through the wheel… the spray relieves the congestion that occurs between the compressor blades by cooling it - which, in effect, is like putting a crowd of overweight people who are all trying to get through the same set of doors on an instantaneous diet.

Before tapping into the compressor housing with this nozzle I did search the interwebz for some kind of previous example but couldn't find anything - so I'm not entirely sure how much benefit there is to this method. At the very least, it's letting me push this turbo well outside of the usual efficiency zone. And if the back of the comp wheel is getting wet, it may be enough to compress some of the expanding air right at the "exit doors"… we'll see!
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:48 am

Here's a good read on wet compression… http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost...OMPRESSION.pdf
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby loxxrider » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:55 pm

For the future so as not to get others confused, lets make sure we call the compressor the compressor and the turbine the turbine Ed. That really threw me for a loop lol. :P
-Chris

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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby Mcstiff » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:29 am

Yeah :-P I meant compressor lol
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:59 pm

Made an unexpected purchase this weekend… a deal I couldn't refuse came up on an 01' TT 225 parts car. Front seats and glove-box were gone already and a few things on the drivers front were damaged but otherwise it seems to be a really nice find.

Delivery…
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Dash shot…
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Most of the interior stock piled…
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All I really needed was the drivetrain and floor-pan to swap the Haldex system into my GLI... and I'd been planning on building a garage first - kind a need somewhere to do the swap. Well, kind of need a car to drive during the swap too…

Minor details right ;)
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby 85oceanic » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:12 pm

SWEET!
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:16 pm

Thanks - I'm pretty stoked!

I think we have a long-weekend coming up so I'll try to pull the rest of the interior but that's it until I can solve a smoking turbo issue. I'll check the oil feed and drain lines... as was mentioned in another thread. See what happens from there.

Anyone know what a 1.8T long-block weighs? I'd like to get the engine and trans into my basement… seems like kind of an awkward piece to pack through the house though :D
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby versacehobo » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:14 am

Hey man,

I dont know what they weigh but I was able to lift it from the ground to my boot, then when I got home lift the motor out on my own and carry it up a driveway to the garage.

They're pretty light, not much to them at all really, I'd sah if you've got a bit of muscle you'll be right :)
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Re: MK4 GLI 20vt: a daily driver experiment...

Postby All_Euro » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:11 pm

Good to hear - I'll give it a go then :beer:
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